Im stumped here.

[Senex Civis]

I dont understands something, and that something is Religion ok? To me, as a strongly grounded Atheist i believe in no god and actively defy Religion on a daily basis, so what i dont understand is, why?

Why do all Christians, Muslims Etc. believe? Is it something to do with being given hope and a possible route of salvation by it, maybe your actually idiotic (in my opinion) to actually believe Religions huge hunking pile of bull. You see, fine if you are Religious because you want some sort of salvation and moral support, good on you, thats nice, im fine with that, but for me anyway its when you actually start to believe in Religions teachings that it gets ridiculous. The bible, and indeed many other Religious texts/teachings are full of utter lies, nonsensical mumbo-jumbo and GREAT BIG STONKING CONTRADICTIONS. And, fair enough you may be thinking, 'what a close minded biggot' or something along those lines, but i ask you, what proof is there, and i mean resounding proof to back up any Religious beliefs?

There are even some open, recently found loopholes in the Christian text The Bible, you see (not to offend any non-practicing Christians here) many devout Christians believe that earth is a mere 6000 years old, and BAM LOOPHOLE!. Ah, that amuses me . You see, we have carbon dating proof that tells us Earth was made the grand total of 4 1/2 billion years ago. Yet what bothers me is they even deny open clear evidence such as that, and that is what brings me back to my question...

How on earth can you actually believe these ridiculous, contradictory, loophole ridden teachings? HOW?!

[Helm]

It's something to do with the nature of the condition.

[Senex Civis]

How so?

[Helm]

It's a kind of mass cultural and societal manifestation of a humanities reaction to life the universe and existence in general. All religions being man made creations of course.

[Senex Civis]

Of course, but it still doesnt give them any reasonable explanation to actualy believe the stuff.

[Helm]

Well humans really hate not knowing about things so there's a tendency to try fill in the blanks with anything that could possibly be true.

[The Dude]

You'll find your answers in religion and belief itself. Maybe if you'd spend a little less time defying them and boasting about how anti you are, and a little more time on studying and understanding, you could find out.

[Senex Civis]

Ha, that amuses me greatly, considering i have researched many religions in-depth as i have many devout religous friends, and indeed, family around me.

[The Dude]

So why are you stumped? You should have all the answers at hand.

What role do you think religion fulfills? Or actually, let's start at the basis.

Why is there faith in god? Answer this question for yourself as truthfully as you think you can. Helm has responded thinking to give you all the answers. I don't think to give you any, all I have are my own conclusions and they may well be the same as yours if we study the same source material.

[xcorps]

Ha, that amuses me greatly, considering i have researched many religions in-depth as i have many devout religous friends, and indeed, family around me.

but I have been read most of the bible as my mother and father were devout Catholics, I know most of the stories and only recently have I realised how flawed the bible actually is.

Odd little contradiction here. I find it more likely that God made the Earth 6000 years ago as a 4.5 billion year old rock (which I don't believe) than you having researched many (or any) religions in depth.

Just so you know, reading most of the bible =/= in-depth research.

[Senex Civis]

Odd little contradiction here. I find it more likely that God made the Earth 6000 years ago as a 4.5 billion year old rock (which I don't believe) than you having researched many (or any) religions in depth.

Just so you know, reading most of the bible =/= in-depth research.

Christianity? I certainly have researched in depth.
Islam? Sure
Buddhism? Little bit...
Hinduism? The basics.
Minor Religions? Not really, I know a few snippets from Taoism, some from paganism. That's about it.

I'm very much I the arms of SciencE when it comes to the creation of earth etc. So I'm perfectly 100% sure that there is no 'creator' whatsoever, and the universe as we know it was made by Physics, Chemistry and Biology alone.

[xcorps]

Christianity? I certainly have researched in depth.
Islam? Sure
Buddhism? Little bit...
Hinduism? The basics.
Minor Religions? Not really, I know a few snippets from Taoism, some from paganism. That's about it.

I'm very much I the arms of SciencE when it comes to the creation of earth etc. So I'm perfectly 100% sure that there is no 'creator' whatsoever, and the universe as we know it was made by Physics, Chemistry and Biology alone.

Do you believe the Pauline authorship of the Pastoral Epistles, or do you stand with Basilides and Tatian?

[Senex Civis]

Do you believe the Pauline authorship of the Pastoral Epistles, or do you stand with Basilides and Tatian?

I don't really know how to word my opinion, so could I quote something that effectively words how I feel?

Basilides and Tatian
, but I'll quote it.

[Senex Civis]

So, why is there faith in God? My opinion? Because people 'apparently' need something to believe in (not true IMO Atheism is living proof of not believing in a deity not having a negative effect) And i think, yes Religion inspires creativity but its also a sadistic, messed up practice for a portion of it and has started, or played a part in almost every major war in history.

What are your opinions good sir?

[The Dude]

So, why is there faith in God? My opinion? Because people 'apparently' need something to believe in (not true IMO Atheism is living proof of not believing in a deity not having a negative effect) And i think, yes Religion inspires creativity but its also a sadistic, messed up practice for a portion of it and has started, or played a part in almost every major war in history.

What are your opinions good sir?

Well, if SigniferOne were here he'd argue that the most negative effect of atheism is the removal of an objective moral standard (he believes that the only way for absolute morality to exist is via God). So that's one potential bad side effect, since a lot of atheists fall prey to moral relativism.

My opinion is that it's a philosophical necessity that belief in god exists. Plato believed in a single god when he argued for the One Good as being the first cause of everything. So too with the later argument of the Prime Mover, or the Unmoved Mover as posited by I believe Aristotle.

The thing is that at some point people started seriously questioning into the how and what of existence and came to a reductionist account of things: that there is one fundamental principle underlying the existence of all things. If you look at monotheistic religions and polytheistic religions you see the key difference between them being not the number of gods they worship, but that monotheism has a very strong philosophical basis in god being the One that caused it all, whereas polytheism is just a collection of myths.

And as Spinoza points out about nineteen to twenty centuries after Plato and Aristotle, people do have a need for the simple language of myth and mystery. A lot of people are not philosophers, they're not intellectually gifted in any way, but they still struggle with existential questions. And so the complex, philosophical account of theism gets reduced to a story of mythology and wonder with colourful stories that serve as symbolism. This is the only way that existential ponderings can be presented to most people. That is the difference between theism and religion, and that is the role of religion in society.

That's what I've concluded in a nutshell, anyway.

[Squiggle]

Well, if SigniferOne were here he'd argue that the most negative effect of atheism is the removal of an objective moral standard (he believes that the only way for absolute morality to exist is via God). So that's one potential bad side effect, since a lot of atheists fall prey to moral relativism.

My opinion is that it's a philosophical necessity that belief in god exists. Plato believed in a single god when he argued for the One Good as being the first cause of everything. So too with the later argument of the Prime Mover, or the Unmoved Mover as posited by I believe Aristotle.

The thing is that at some point people started seriously questioning into the how and what of existence and came to a reductionist account of things: that there is one fundamental principle underlying the existence of all things. If you look at monotheistic religions and polytheistic religions you see the key difference between them being not the number of gods they worship, but that monotheism has a very strong philosophical basis in god being the One that caused it all, whereas polytheism is just a collection of myths.

And as Spinoza points out about nineteen to twenty centuries after Plato and Aristotle, people do have a need for the simple language of myth and mystery. A lot of people are not philosophers, they're not intellectually gifted in any way, but they still struggle with existential questions. And so the complex, philosophical account of theism gets reduced to a story of mythology and wonder with colourful stories that serve as symbolism. This is the only way that existential ponderings can be presented to most people. That is the difference between theism and religion, and that is the role of religion in society.

That's what I've concluded in a nutshell, anyway.

So why are philosophically learned people religious?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

So why are philosophically learned people religious?

because they think it best and have chosen to be?

[Squiggle]

because they think it best and have chosen to be?

Why do they 'think it best'? Because [and I'll admit there could be a few exceptions to the contrary] they've evaluated the evidence and found it abundantly in favour of the religion in question. The Dudes condescending explanation is half assed at best, he simply answers theres an existential need and presupposes thats the ONLY drive for the religious. The reality is, convincing evidence, that there is genuinely good reasons not just to be a theist but a Christian, does exist.

[SigniferOne]

Well, if SigniferOne were here he'd argue that the most negative effect of atheism is the removal of an objective moral standard (he believes that the only way for absolute morality to exist is via God). So that's one potential bad side effect, since a lot of atheists fall prey to moral relativism.

My opinion is that it's a philosophical necessity that belief in god exists. Plato believed in a single god when he argued for the One Good as being the first cause of everything. So too with the later argument of the Prime Mover, or the Unmoved Mover as posited by I believe Aristotle.

The thing is that at some point people started seriously questioning into the how and what of existence and came to a reductionist account of things: that there is one fundamental principle underlying the existence of all things. If you look at monotheistic religions and polytheistic religions you see the key difference between them being not the number of gods they worship, but that monotheism has a very strong philosophical basis in god being the One that caused it all, whereas polytheism is just a collection of myths.

And as Spinoza points out about nineteen to twenty centuries after Plato and Aristotle, people do have a need for the simple language of myth and mystery. A lot of people are not philosophers, they're not intellectually gifted in any way, but they still struggle with existential questions. And so the complex, philosophical account of theism gets reduced to a story of mythology and wonder with colourful stories that serve as symbolism. This is the only way that existential ponderings can be presented to most people. That is the difference between theism and religion, and that is the role of religion in society.

That's what I've concluded in a nutshell, anyway.

Very well put.

I was warned you would do this....

Do what? You asked a question, and I answered.

As SignifierOne will no doubt expand, without religion there is unfortunately no objective moral system.

Nietzsche has laid the groundwork for one but it won't come about within our lifetimes. Until then, as an atheist, what reason is there apart from empathy to prevent me just killing you and looting your posessions? Why is it wrong? You see, proper morality requires a God. Until we can work around that it's a choice between religion and dodgy moral relativism.

Religion's most important role is to give people guidelines to live by. I disagree with the rules of most of the major religions, but I can hardly claim my own have better foundations.

Wow what the, what is it with you guys recently? Another really well put post.

Why do they 'think it best'? Because [and I'll admit there could be a few exceptions to the contrary] they've evaluated the evidence and found it abundantly in favour of the religion in question. The Dudes condescending explanation is half assed at best, he simply answers theres an existential need and presupposes thats the ONLY drive for the religious.

To be fair I don't really see where he says that. If the 'formula' for a justified belief be: it's true, and it's important, then he lays out the "important" part. First you have to see why there's sense in theism in the first place, before being willing to investigate the facts for it. It starts in the realignment of a person's moral approach to existence.

[Helm]

I gave my own personal opinion on it, it's an opinion which is also true of course. Religion has been around for as long as the human race has been around so clearly there's an explanation that has something to do with the human psyche rather than through direct revelation from gods, miracles and other supernatural events.

So, why is there faith in God?

Like I said he fills in the gaps, he fills in the gaps in such a way that people feel content and awe inspired by it. It gives them hope in their lives and all that kind of thing. So religion is essentially a good thing for people but when people have an extreme liking for something that's when they start to misbehave, you will have you persecutions, holy wars, jihads and so on. This isn't limited to religion though it can also be a political ideology such as Communism or Nazism.