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Thread: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

  1. #41

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    That's not the point OmniJackal. Stack spawning is not only annoying but also beats the crap out of any immersion and sense of accomplishment you get for correct planning and winning. If you win a major battle, it should mean something. And if AI can just spawn another army out of thin air, then victories don't mean squat.

    Personally, I played Date on Legendary (which sould be same as VH/VH afaik) and on the first few plays I got steamrolled by the Mori(?) because I kept running into new armies with my counterattacks and getting pwned before reaching their castles.

    After this mod was installed I noticed this doesn't happen anymore. The AI is still very challenging and can spawn units pretty quickly, but there are no magic armies appearing out of nowhere anymore. Now when I win a major engagement, I know the enemy is weakened and there is real opportunity for a counter-attack.

    So thumbs up for this mod, saved the game for me!

  2. #42

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Excellent thank you for this!

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by ManSh00ter View Post
    That's not the point OmniJackal. Stack spawning is not only annoying but also beats the crap out of any immersion and sense of accomplishment you get for correct planning and winning. If you win a major battle, it should mean something. And if AI can just spawn another army out of thin air, then victories don't mean squat.

    Personally, I played Date on Legendary (which sould be same as VH/VH afaik) and on the first few plays I got steamrolled by the Mori(?) because I kept running into new armies with my counterattacks and getting pwned before reaching their castles.

    After this mod was installed I noticed this doesn't happen anymore. The AI is still very challenging and can spawn units pretty quickly, but there are no magic armies appearing out of nowhere anymore. Now when I win a major engagement, I know the enemy is weakened and there is real opportunity for a counter-attack.

    So thumbs up for this mod, saved the game for me!
    Great, but I started a new campaign on hard and the AI wasn't that challenging. So did you play on Legendary when you installed the mod ?

  4. #44

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Boba93 View Post
    Great, but I started a new campaign on hard and the AI wasn't that challenging. So did you play on Legendary when you installed the mod ?
    Yeah, and while the campaign is challenging I don't see those annoying phantom stacks anymore. Of course, on Legendary the AI gets lots of bonuses, so its still able to afford many units.

    I tried Uesugi on Legendary with the mod, and while there were no spawned stacks, I still got smashed from four sides by conventionally raised armies. So its by no means easy.

  5. #45

    Default

    It's strange that I never encounter any magic armies in my campaign (date and shimazu).

    however, if it's be there, it should be turn on when you have more than 40 provinces, otherwise, the game is damn boring

  6. #46

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    1. When your entire family dies off, you get a random distance relative that takes control. This happens for the AI and the player.
    2. I do not believe armies actually spawn, I think they just hide in woods a lot.
    3. The only times armies DO spawn is re-emergent factions. They spawn a full stack of experienced units, I believe.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Does the AI get traits like clan traits? Or can they? I was wondering talking about adding a recruitment slot couldn't you maybe add the call to arms trait it gives +1 to recruitment slot. Just modify the amount of turns they get to keep it.
    Last edited by rebirthofman; March 24, 2011 at 05:22 PM.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlemaker View Post
    1. When your entire family dies off, you get a random distance relative that takes control. This happens for the AI and the player.
    2. I do not believe armies actually spawn, I think they just hide in woods a lot.
    3. The only times armies DO spawn is re-emergent factions. They spawn a full stack of experienced units, I believe.
    This.

    I've put in something like 90 hours playing between hard, very hard and legendary.

    Not once have I seen an army that could only be explained by "magically spawning".

    Believe it or not, the AI is producing those armies in its cities. To help facilitate this, I believe a few things are occurring.

    1) Most people play with watch AI turns turned off.
    2) The AI receives substantial economic boosts and much lower upkeep costs on hard and above.
    3) The AI MAY be able to construct all units in one turn.
    4) The AI MAY have additional construction slots, something like the capital of the players clan.

    What happens is, the AI is able to field 2 or even 3x as many troops per capita as the player.

    This results in one group of players believing the AI gets these troops for free since it isn't possible for the player to field that many troops.

    Another group of people see armies seemingly appear out of nowhere. Reality is that these armies were produced and hidden in a forest. You didn't see the army move there because it was either out of view, or you do not have AI turns turned on.

    Now, I am not going to say 100% the AI doesn't get magical armies, but I am willing to bet I have spent more time than most people in this thread playing the game and I've never seen one of these armies that cannot be explained by game play mechanics.

    Ultimately, the AI invests heavily in unit research and invests heavily in building high end production facilities. I've seen the AI on very hard reach legendary buildings within 10 years. Then you capture a city from an AI and lo and behold you too can now produce rank 5 everything.

    The effects are cumulative. More money, more investment, more production, experience per unit.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    The AI has one additional recruitment slot on vh and legendary and the unit build times are the same for the player and the AI. I haven't inquired if the CAI spawns units for free, but I know several variables that control AI cheats (like the experience upgrader) and some of them hint toward unit spawns for the AI like "CDIR_DESIRE_ASHIKAGA_UNIT_SPAWNER". Personally I don't mind AI cheats if they are properly implemented. Any game AI needs cheats, since no Ai can challenge an average player on fair ground. What I don't like are cheats that make player strategies useless. The point in the whole discussion is not how many armies the AI can filed, the point is how quickly it can produce them. I spawn cheat could negate the effect of battles. However, personally I haven't witnessed that yet.
    Last edited by Yarkis de Bodemloze; March 24, 2011 at 06:09 PM.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    So basically I was right and this thread is just retarded and these guys need to play on easy. KK

  11. #51

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by ManSh00ter View Post
    That's not the point OmniJackal. Stack spawning is not only annoying but also beats the crap out of any immersion and sense of accomplishment you get for correct planning and winning. If you win a major battle, it should mean something. And if AI can just spawn another army out of thin air, then victories don't mean squat.

    Personally, I played Date on Legendary (which sould be same as VH/VH afaik) and on the first few plays I got steamrolled by the Mori(?) because I kept running into new armies with my counterattacks and getting pwned before reaching their castles.

    After this mod was installed I noticed this doesn't happen anymore. The AI is still very challenging and can spawn units pretty quickly, but there are no magic armies appearing out of nowhere anymore. Now when I win a major engagement, I know the enemy is weakened and there is real opportunity for a counter-attack.

    So thumbs up for this mod, saved the game for me!
    Not trying to flame here, but why not just play a lower difficulty setting to begin with?

    I mean if you have to mod Legendary difficulty to be able to beat it than what's the point in playing on legendary difficulty?? I really don't understand.

    As for unit spawning I always have ninja's ahead of my armies fro scouting so I've never really encountered this. But if this is the price we pay for what I think is the best CAI for a long time so be it.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniJackal View Post
    I think this thread is retarded. If you think the enemy magicly spawns armies while out of your sight then put ninja, metsuke, and monks in his territory and it wont happen? Or play on easy so that the ai doesnt have to cheat against you to be hard.
    A lot of people don't like the immense AI spawning. It ruins immersion and makes victories feel hollow. I don't get how people like you even exist, denying stuff that is directly in front of you.

    Also, this happens on every difficulty, from easy up.

    edit: also, if this problem didn't exist, then why does the mod eliminate these spawning armies? It's fine if you don't want to use the mod,
    Last edited by Harry Lime; March 25, 2011 at 09:49 AM. Reason: removed insult

  13. #53

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Osbot View Post
    This.

    I've put in something like 90 hours playing between hard, very hard and legendary.

    Not once have I seen an army that could only be explained by "magically spawning".

    Believe it or not, the AI is producing those armies in its cities. To help facilitate this, I believe a few things are occurring.

    1) Most people play with watch AI turns turned off.
    2) The AI receives substantial economic boosts and much lower upkeep costs on hard and above.
    3) The AI MAY be able to construct all units in one turn.
    4) The AI MAY have additional construction slots, something like the capital of the players clan.

    What happens is, the AI is able to field 2 or even 3x as many troops per capita as the player.

    This results in one group of players believing the AI gets these troops for free since it isn't possible for the player to field that many troops.

    Another group of people see armies seemingly appear out of nowhere. Reality is that these armies were produced and hidden in a forest. You didn't see the army move there because it was either out of view, or you do not have AI turns turned on.

    Now, I am not going to say 100% the AI doesn't get magical armies, but I am willing to bet I have spent more time than most people in this thread playing the game and I've never seen one of these armies that cannot be explained by game play mechanics.

    Ultimately, the AI invests heavily in unit research and invests heavily in building high end production facilities. I've seen the AI on very hard reach legendary buildings within 10 years. Then you capture a city from an AI and lo and behold you too can now produce rank 5 everything.

    The effects are cumulative. More money, more investment, more production, experience per unit.
    Hi, could you provide an example on how the AI is able to build full stacks of Chevron 4 samurai (with about 4 ashigaru) by around turn 20-30?

    I find it strange that this happens, as even after I conquered all their provinces, I myself am unable to produce Chevron 4 samurai from their buildings.

    I am willing to accept it if the AI is given bonuses to produce veteran units from the start (ie: extra income bonus, extra recruitment slots, free exp for each new unit produced), but not if it 'materializes' from thin air, which I suspect it does.

    Do enlighten me on the legitimate methods this can happen.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    I've started a hard Oda campaign using the beta mod, and so far it's looking good. Some of the worse spawners I've seen in vanilla were Takeda, Tokugawa and maybe Hojo, but after the mod none of their armies are magically high-tier as far as I can tell. I'll play more and report in later.

    Oh and not sure if it's the mod's effect, but Shimazu didn't die off early this time lol. And I hope Uesugi can survive this time since Takeda can't spam stuff at him.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Frei View Post
    A lot of people don't like the immense AI spawning. It ruins immersion and makes victories feel hollow. I don't get how people like you even exist, denying stuff that is directly in front of you.

    Also, this happens on every difficulty, from easy up.

    edit: also, if this problem didn't exist, then why does the mod eliminate these spawning armies? It's fine if you don't want to use the mod

    The issue doesn't exist. It's all in your head.
    Last edited by Harry Lime; March 25, 2011 at 10:00 AM. Reason: removed insult

  16. #56

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Zac Dai View Post
    Not trying to flame here, but why not just play a lower difficulty setting to begin with?

    I mean if you have to mod Legendary difficulty to be able to beat it than what's the point in playing on legendary difficulty?? I really don't understand.
    Because I like the challenge Legendary offers. I'm not playing it to prove something or for achievements, I just like the difficult gameplay with the fact that I can't reload my way out of mistakes.

    As I said, I do not have a problem with AI getting stats bonuses which enable it to outproduce me. I do mind if the AI is plainly cheating, because then its not so much about challenging, dynamic gameplay as it is about - cheating!

    Plus, as I said, I want my hard won victories to mean something. Stack spawning removes any meaning from winning major battles. Simple as that.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Quote Originally Posted by ManSh00ter View Post
    Because I like the challenge Legendary offers. I'm not playing it to prove something or for achievements, I just like the difficult gameplay with the fact that I can't reload my way out of mistakes.

    As I said, I do not have a problem with AI getting stats bonuses which enable it to outproduce me. I do mind if the AI is plainly cheating, because then its not so much about challenging, dynamic gameplay as it is about - cheating!

    Plus, as I said, I want my hard won victories to mean something. Stack spawning removes any meaning from winning major battles. Simple as that.
    There's no real explaining to people who just don't understand what's going on here. It's not about the difficulty, I doubt there's anyone here that can't take on multiple stacks of AI armies, but it's tedious, makes your victories hollow, and just plain silly.
    Last edited by Harry Lime; March 25, 2011 at 09:51 AM. Reason: insults

  18. #58
    Harry Lime's Avatar Not a ToS violation
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    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Any more insulting language will be met with spawned infractions not hiding in the woods editing. Those involved have been warned.
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  19. #59

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    Omnijackal, you are clearly wrong.

    And even if you are right and AI doesn't cheat(which is obviously the case), you are fighting against a mod, which should have zero effect on difficulty, since it disable a cheat which doesn't exist in your opinion.

    It is like fighting against medical insulin, on the basis, that diabetes is only a myth, and insulin injecting people are not sick, just whiny noobs.
    "Stop whining bastards, and start eating cupcakes, because there is no such thing, as too high blood-sugar level!!"

  20. #60

    Default Re: Mod to stop AI from spawning units instantly when out of your line of sight

    It very obviously happens, but only when they are out of your sight range. It's pretty easy to test it by isolating an army and check around for troops, and watch as they come into your sight range one turn later with a half a stack more units.

    I don't know if removing the fog of war would prevent this, since if you see them, it doesn't happen. If that would work as a fix, I'm for it.

    And seriously, this game is fantastic and polished, I love it. But the spawning armies magically thing is such a joke and I can't believe CA went ahead with it. They improved the AI enough that they didn't need silly things such as this.
    Sounds like textbook paranoia.

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