Why muslims are overreacting to recent events

[Guderian]

Here's an interesting article in today's SMH

By Carol Eisenberg in New York
February 8, 2006

ANALYSIS

THEIR anger was raw. Several New York Muslims protesting against the caricatures of the prophet Muhammad became irate when asked if the global furore was an overreaction.

"Do you know the atrocities that are happening to Muslims every day?" one demanded. "In Iraq? In Pakistan? In Palestine? Muslims feel as if we are under siege."

The deep offence many Muslims have taken to the cartoons is about present-day politics as much as theology.

Islamic tradition strongly discourages depictions of the prophet as a form of idolatry. But the reaction to the cartoons cannot be understood outside a broader, post-September 11 political context: Many Muslims see the drawings' publication as a deliberate attempt to insult them as they perceive themselves to be a stigmatised minority in Europe and a humiliated civilisation in the Middle East.

"You can't understand the response in isolation," said Dr Faroque Khan, of the Islamic Centre of Long Island. "At such a sensitive time, when many Muslims view the war in Iraq as an occupation of an Islamic country by Western powers and fear growing sentiment against immigrants in Europe, this is a kind of spark. People see it as an attack on the core of their faith."

Set against a backdrop in which both anti-immigrant political parties in Europe and Islamist groups are framing the conflict in terms of a clash of civilisations, all the ingredients of a conflagration are there.

The Koran makes no explicit mention of graven images. However, it has been interpreted to prohibit images of Muhammad. It also covers figures such as Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

Nevertheless, such images are widely available in non-Arabic Islamic countries.

"There is a rich tradition, particularly in Turkey and Persia, of portrayals of the prophet, sometimes with his face veiled, sometimes with it visible, often found in palaces and court settings," said Omar Safi, associate professor of Islamic Studies at Colgate University in New York.

Why did these particular drawings provoke such a storm?

"I would argue that the genesis of this whole controversy has a lot more to do with the position in which Muslims find themselves in Europe than with Islamic theology," Dr Safi said.

"I think that some of the same kinds of questions that Europeans asked about Jews a hundred years ago are now being asked of Muslims. Namely, can these people ever be proper citizens of Europe if their loyalties and allegiances lie elsewhere?"

To Westerners who wonder why Muslim sensitivities should trump free speech, Muslims respond with accusations of hypocrisy.

"The West likes to frame this as a free speech issue, but there are many categories of restricted speech: for instance, eight countries in Europe ban speech denying the Holocaust. You can call our prophet a terrorist, but you cannot question the Holocaust?" said Muqtedar Khan, of the University of Delaware.

The sad thing is that all of this was predicted by analysts when Bush set out to invade Iraq, most warned of alienating the muslims and creating conflict. It seems the predictions have come true, the muslim anger is directed at the Danish images but it's source lies elsewhere.

[Masquerade]

Oh dear. Several muslims from one of the world's most populated cities are protesting. What a wide and general cross section of that faith.

[Ummon]

Scarcely believable article. Muslims cause more pain that they suffer, but their subjects do not revolt.

[Masquerade]

Scarcely believable article. Muslims cause more pain that they suffer, but their subjects do not revolt.

Subjects?

[Ummon]

Subjects. Intended as dhimmi: second class citizens of other religions.

[Guderian]

@Masquerade

Actually the protests in New York coincide with protests in nearly every country with a sizeable muslim presence. From Afghanistan to Italy to New Zealand to Pakistan.

@Ummon

This comes directly from the mouths of moderate muslims. And it is reasonable to assume that with the recent backlash against Islam, muslims will be agitated and on the defensive.

[Masquerade]

The entire thing is so anal; on everybody's part.

[Dirty Harry]

Muslims have reason to be on the defensive concerning their backwards religion which is at its root violent and enslaves half the population of the earth (women). If muslims want to join the modern world its time to relinquish their oppressive and fanatical religion just as the rest of the 1st world has with christianty. Until they do they will continue to be viewed as threats and primitive, savage people.

[RZZZA]

Muslims have reason to be on the defensive concerning their backwards religion which is at its root violent and enslaves half the population of the earth (women). If muslims want to join the modern world its time to relinquish their oppressive and fanatical religion just as the rest of the 1st world has with christianty. Until they do they will continue to be viewed as threats and primitive, savage people.

I agree, these people are living in the 17th century and they need to stfu with their stupid religous ideals that nobody outside their religion even cares about. Moderate muslims claim that they renounce what their more radical brothers are doing but I'm seeing no affect of the supposedly large majority of moderate muslims condemning violence...all I see is violence, I dont see moderate muslims helping in the least. And dont blame the media either, I think everyone knows damn well if a huge moderate muslim protest began somewhere today that condemned violent retribution, it would be on FOX and CNN.

I think the reality is, muslims are only against violent retribution when it negatively affects other muslims. When the victims are infidels, its all good. The only reason moderate muslims are speaking out against violence in retribution to these cartoons is because it reflects back poorly on Islam.

Why dont the supposed majority of moderate muslims get off their ass and do something about all that fanatical, radical, fundamental islam? Until they do, theyre part of the problem too imo. Just saying "We moderate muslims condemn this violence" in the media is not enough, obviously. Condemn it all you want, but ignorant people are still going to threaten jihad and beheading of all infidels who insult the prophet muhammed!

I'm gonna draw 2 pictures of muhammed today, to doubly insult Islam. Then I'm gonna draw Jesus hanging from an apple tree, bhuddha overeating and his stomach popping, and confucious with a chopstick in his eyeball. Just to make sure I insult all of the major religious, I'll also draw shiva giving moses a handjob somewhere in the corner of the poster, which I will glue to a stake and stick on my front curb so every passing car can see it.

[Carach]

they are under siege? its their own doing ffs...

they need to learn more history about the world, as well as current events.

[Hub'ite]

So now this is Bush's fault? Man everything seems to be Bush's fault.

[Masquerade]

So now this is Bush's fault? Man everything seems to be Bush's fault.

A bit of a wild jump of conclusion there matey.

[Hub'ite]

A bit of a wild jump of conclusion there matey.

The sad thing is that all of this was predicted by analysts when Bush set out to invade Iraq, most warned of alienating the muslims and creating conflict

Seems like he is blaming Bush.

[Carach]

So now this is Bush's fault? Man everything seems to be Bush's fault.

he is the world's scapegoat these days

[LordSaradain]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/S...702091,00.html

Here's a good link which sumarizes the development of the conflict.

[O'brien the Protector]

two muslim countries are invaded by two western countries and muslims all over the world feel as though the entire western world is trying to insult the entire muslim world? petty nationlism in my opinoin.

[Ahlerich]

can u imagine what would be going on if 2 christian or jewish countries were invaded by muslims. and how the christians / jews worldwide would think about that

anyways muslimsare sensible when it comes to making fun of their religion. but so are christians and jews. thats just normal.
protest when they made jesus movies recently and older ones years ago or when christian values and stuff are used for jokes.

its not associated to countries but to beliefs, ppl tend to forget that sometimes.

let them be angry as well as the christians about jesus movies and other things. no need for a hype. its not even worth mentioning. not surprising, not good not bad, end

[Sher Khan]

You could be a bit less harsh, but I do agree with you RZZZA. Not enough action is taken by moderate Muslims. The great problem comes from even moderates refusing to learn about their own religion by themselves; most today simply take what spills out of radical mosques and simply take out the part about violent action. As such, they can barely fight against their radical fellows over the question of violence, but can't seem to disagree with them over the not-as-violent, but equally bad parts of today's Islam.

And then comes the point where the majority of moderate muslims are disorganized and apathetic. In the Middle East, a great number of people either follow or don't lift a finger against the radicals. The moderates that do however disagree with these principles have all but left the Middle East for other countries to get away from it all - my parents and greater family being one such example.

The older moderates today live in relative comfort in the U.S. The radicals that live in the Middle East feel that they have nothing left to lose and are easily drawn to violence. They are the people who can't afford to leave the nation and are slowly manipulated through community pressure and fanatical preachers into terrorist suicide bombers.

The prevailing thought that goes around our communities is: we came here to get away from that hell; we don't want any part of it. And so, the best we can do at this moment is simply condemn. We're distant from each other and fight amongst ourselves for more racial and cultural reasons. There's little chance however of a family head agreeing to throw away his new peace and stability to rise against the fanatics back home.

Then comes the problems of organization. Currently, the most powerful men in the muslim world... are the fanatical imams preaching their idea of Islam for consolidation of power. A good, peaceful imam can exist who leads a peaceful congregation, but he'll quickly be overrun by a more radical cleric who has armed militant followers - they don't stand a chance as far as military power on the streets goes. An alarmingly increasing number of radical mosques are spreading because of the backing from powerful and extravagantly wealthy radical muslims, such as the Saudi Salafis/Wahhabbis.

The moderates who do speak out however, are killed the next day as a violent cleric issues his statement that 'so and so is a heretical apostate and Allah demands his life be forfeit.' And so a mob forms, and the lonely professor, doctor, or journalist is killed by a mob, a downtrodden peasant militia fighting in blind faith under the command of their respective imams.

The article posted however is remarkably insightful, although its argument is lacking; there's a world of information and history that helps explain something so complex as this situation and the article can't do it justice. But it's a step to recognition.

Hopefully, second and third generation muslims in the West can come to grips with the situation and take their own identity and faith without the influence of Islamofascism. It's a slow, uphill battle for us against an extremely powerful and influential force in Islam right now, but we have to start somewhere.

Otherwise, it'll continue to escalate and grow to the next flashpoint for war.

[Trey]

You could be a bit less harsh, but I do agree with you RZZZA. Not enough action is taken by moderate Muslims. The great problem comes from even moderates refusing to learn about their own religion by themselves; most today simply take what spills out of radical mosques and simply take out the part about violent action. As such, they can barely fight against their radical fellows over the question of violence, but can't seem to disagree with them over the not-as-violent, but equally bad parts of today's Islam.

And then comes the point where the majority of moderate muslims are disorganized and apathetic. In the Middle East, a great number of people either follow or don't lift a finger against the radicals. The moderates that do however disagree with these principles have all but left the Middle East for other countries to get away from it all - my parents and greater family being one such example.

The older moderates today live in relative comfort in the U.S. The radicals that live in the Middle East feel that they have nothing left to lose and are easily drawn to violence. They are the people who can't afford to leave the nation and are slowly manipulated through community pressure and fanatical preachers into terrorist suicide bombers.

The prevailing thought that goes around our communities is: we came here to get away from that hell; we don't want any part of it. And so, the best we can do at this moment is simply condemn. We're distant from each other and fight amongst ourselves for more racial and cultural reasons. There's little chance however of a family head agreeing to throw away his new peace and stability to rise against the fanatics back home.

Then comes the problems of organization. Currently, the most powerful men in the muslim world... are the fanatical imams preaching their idea of Islam for consolidation of power. A good, peaceful imam can exist who leads a peaceful congregation, but he'll quickly be overrun by a more radical cleric who has armed militant followers - they don't stand a chance as far as military power on the streets goes. An alarmingly increasing number of radical mosques are spreading because of the backing from powerful and extravagantly wealthy radical muslims, such as the Saudi Salafis/Wahhabbis.

The moderates who do speak out however, are killed the next day as a violent cleric issues his statement that 'so and so is a heretical apostate and Allah demands his life be forfeit.' And so a mob forms, and the lonely professor, doctor, or journalist is killed by a mob, a downtrodden peasant militia fighting in blind faith under the command of their respective imams.

The article posted however is remarkably insightful, although its argument is lacking; there's a world of information and history that helps explain something so complex as this situation and the article can't do it justice. But it's a step to recognition.

Hopefully, second and third generation muslims in the West can come to grips with the situation and take their own identity and faith without the influence of Islamofascism. It's a slow, uphill battle for us against an extremely powerful and influential force in Islam right now, but we have to start somewhere.

Otherwise, it'll continue to escalate and grow to the next flashpoint for war.

How true, man. I just listened to this one iranian guy who emigrated to the US. (used to be Muslim, Converted to Christianity). He said that the average person in Iran is actually a lot like the average person in the US. He also said although the Shah was a terrible leader, he left the People alone. when the Mullahs took control, they had a vendetta agianst the west (especially america), and they have turned Iran back to the dark ages (socially). Although the standard of living has increased, personal freedoms have been cut in half. Also, he said that the average muslim didnt hate the west, and go crazy whenever he brings something from the US, offering tons of money for it, but it is the Imams who are influencing muslims to hate, and spreading lies, and of course most of them who are uneducated dont know any better, so they believe it.

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

Sher Khan, that was perhaps the best example of how religion is simply a political tool, and a frighteningly powerful one. It is so easy to take religious beliefs that people hold extremely dear and manipulate them to gain influence over people in pursuit of a sick, twisted, selfish goal.