Roman troops of the Third Century AD

[Diocle]

Soldier in the middle,dressing a tunic,is certainly the most original painting I saw from Graham Sumner so far

This reminds me that my mom, to avoid such painful experiences, explained me in detail how to dress myself when I was five or six years old! Sweet ancient memories ..

[AMELIANVS]

And another shot of nice late 2nd/early 3rd century cavalryman by Graham Sumner:

[Gäiten]

Great (and very large) artwork. Thank you.

[Diocle]

Beautiful artwork! If only those plumes on the helmet, instead of saffron yellow, were purple, carmine red or maybe even black!

[AMELIANVS]

I think the main reason why they are yellow/orange is because of 2nd century Arrianos.He mentions that Roman cavalry which training he described had yellow crests.

[Diocle]

I think the main reason why they are yellow/orange is because of 2nd century Arrianos.He mentions that Roman cavalry which training he described had yellow crests.

Yeah, OK, but after a full century some bit of good taste should have enlightened their damn minds!

.. Joking sorry! Excellent artwork even with saffron plumes, of course!

[Gäiten]

Another one from Graham Sumner.

http://www.phalera.com/wp-content/up...I-IL-00004.jpg

IMHO just fits into the 3rd century (or late 2nd century AD).

[Joar]

Cool!

[AMELIANVS]

Between ca. 50 AD-Late 1st century(Maximally earliest 2nd):

[Diocle]

Between ca. 50 AD-Late 1st century(Maximally earliest 2nd):

I like the dog! It gives a touch of Britishness (it reminds me some sort of Jack Russel Terrier) to the scene.
About ancient dogs: this is an excellent example of Cane Corso very ancient and very (southern) Italian, I'd like to draw a scene with a Roman soldier and this damn beast:




In the pic by Mr. Sumner the sky is also beautiful, yesterday here there was exactly that same sky! Legionaries are great even though I think you can't take part in any kind of serious military action without protecting at least the lower part of your legs. Cavalrymen are perfect and the helmets qualify them as II century guys.

[tomySVK]

I found two pictures:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[tomySVK]

Roman legionary:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Benjin]

Hey, I just stumbled upon this thread while looking for some good 3rd century references - so much awesome content to be inspired by!

I'm currently working on a mod series called "AAA: Aging, Advancing, Acclimatising" for Rome II that aims to make general's appearances more dynamic (e.g. look old when they're 50+ years old (Aging), acquire better looking gear as they rank up (Advancing), switch to winter clothing when they're in snow (Acclimatising)). I'm gathering references for the Empire Divided DLC campaign's Roman generals, which is set during the Third Century Crisis (when Aurelian was Emperor). When I start work on these 3rd century Roman generals, I'd like to make a tonne of new, awesome looking 3D assets for them to wear. I'm making my own assets (this and this is the sort of thing I can knock out with my current skills + 3D software) since the Empire Divided DLC didn't really give modders much to work with in terms of 3rd century-style equipment, and I'd like to try my hand at doing other types of armours such as cuirasses (scale, muscle etc), swords, shields, greaves, scabbards etc - Rome II: Empire Divided has the perfect kind of setting with a unique, visual style which is lacking that visual content to help show it off (plus, it's also this gen and renders in semi-PBR, so I can push the detail when it comes to metallic surfaces etc) - I could help expand it visually while also increasing my skills.

So, I had a few questions regarding what these generals could wear (if you can include images along with the answers, that'd be really helpful):

1. What sort of weapons (swords, shields, spears) would they have used? Any special shield patterns to help identify them?
2. In Rome II: Empire Divided, there are three Roman groups which have subtle visual / roster differences to help them stand out; Gallic Roman (Factions: Gallic Empire, Britannia, Lusitania, Hispania Citerior etc), Roman (Factions: Aurelian's Rome, Italia, Lydia, Galatia) and Eastern Roman (Factions: Palmyra, Egypt, Numidia, Mauretania). Are there any visual references that could show me what kind of subtle differences I could give for the Gallic Romans + Eastern Romans?
3. Were Theilenhofen type helmets less common than the Heddernheim type helmets? Which were more grand / expensive? I'm asking this because I want to give the best helmet to the highest ranked version of the general.
4. What is the name of this helmet on display, the one on the top right?
5. Does anyone have any realistic visual references (artwork or re-enactment) of a Radiant Crown, like on these kind of coins depicting 3rd century Roman Emperors?
6. Got anymore visual references / info for Roman high-ranking officers / commanders of the 3rd century? I need as much as I can possibly get!

[julianus heraclius]

Hey, I just stumbled upon this thread while looking for some good 3rd century references - so much awesome content to be inspired by!

I'm currently working on a mod series called "AAA: Aging, Advancing, Acclimatising" for Rome II that aims to make general's appearances more dynamic (e.g. look old when they're 50+ years old (Aging), acquire better looking gear as they rank up (Advancing), switch to winter clothing when they're in snow (Acclimatising)). I'm gathering references for the Empire Divided DLC campaign's Roman generals, which is set during the Third Century Crisis (when Aurelian was Emperor). When I start work on these 3rd century Roman generals, I'd like to make a tonne of new, awesome looking 3D assets for them to wear. I'm making my own assets (this and this is the sort of thing I can knock out with my current skills + 3D software) since the Empire Divided DLC didn't really give modders much to work with in terms of 3rd century-style equipment, and I'd like to try my hand at doing other types of armours such as cuirasses (scale, muscle etc), swords, shields, greaves, scabbards etc - Rome II: Empire Divided has the perfect kind of setting with a unique, visual style which is lacking that visual content to help show it off (plus, it's also this gen and renders in semi-PBR, so I can push the detail when it comes to metallic surfaces etc) - I could help expand it visually while also increasing my skills.

So, I had a few questions regarding what these generals could wear (if you can include images along with the answers, that'd be really helpful):

1. What sort of weapons (swords, shields, spears) would they have used? Any special shield patterns to help identify them?
2. In Rome II: Empire Divided, there are three Roman groups which have subtle visual / roster differences to help them stand out; Gallic Roman (Factions: Gallic Empire, Britannia, Lusitania, Hispania Citerior etc), Roman (Factions: Aurelian's Rome, Italia, Lydia, Galatia) and Eastern Roman (Factions: Palmyra, Egypt, Numidia, Mauretania). Are there any visual references that could show me what kind of subtle differences I could give for the Gallic Romans + Eastern Romans?
3. Were Theilenhofen type helmets less common than the Heddernheim type helmets? Which were more grand / expensive? I'm asking this because I want to give the best helmet to the highest ranked version of the general.
4. What is the name of this helmet on display, the one on the top right?
5. Does anyone have any visual references (artwork or re-enactment) of a Radiant Crown, like on these kind of coins depicting 3rc century Roman Emperors?
6. Got anymore visual references / info for Roman high-ranking officers / commanders of the 3rd century? I need as much as I can possibly get!

Hi Benjin,

It is really difficult to answer your questions with any real confidence as a lot is still unknown about the appearances of the roman army during the third century. But I think it is fairly safe to say that both the Theilenhofen and Heddernheim type helmets were likely to be officers helmets and more likely to be cavalry ones. Both helmets are grand though in my opinion the Theilenhofen helmet is more ornate and possibly more likely to have been used by senior officers. Bear in mind that the attic and corinthian type helmets were also used by senior officers.

I don't know the name of the helmet on the right of your picture unfortunately. Most likely an officers helmet.

The radiant crown used in Empire Divided I believe is not real, but happy to be proven wrong.

No one knows what shield designs officers would have used, but most likely similiar to the rank and file. But various mods have used differing shield designs for officers so the choice is yours really.

[Diocle]

.. I don't know the name of the helmet on the right of your picture unfortunately. Most likely an officers helmet. ..

I think the helmet in question is a beautiful reconstruction by Silvano Mattesini of the so called Worthing helmet:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.hoeandworthingarchive.org.uk/w_helmet.html

[Benjin]

It is really difficult to answer your questions with any real confidence as a lot is still unknown about the appearances of the roman army during the third century. But I think it is fairly safe to say that both the Theilenhofen and Heddernheim type helmets were likely to be officers helmets and more likely to be cavalry ones. Both helmets are grand though in my opinion the Theilenhofen helmet is more ornate and possibly more likely to have been used by senior officers. Bear in mind that the attic and corinthian type helmets were also used by senior officers.

Totally understood.

Hmm, tricky - I guess I could give both helmets to the high ranks; make both alternate based on different character heads. I've got 40 Greco-Roman character heads in total to use, so 20 could use the Theilenhofen for ranks 8 - 10, the other 20 could use the Heddernheim for ranks 8 - 10.

I don't know the name of the helmet on the right of your picture unfortunately. Most likely an officers helmet.

I think the helmet in question is a beautiful reconstruction by Silvano Mattesini of the so called Worthing helmet:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.hoeandworthingarchive.org.uk/w_helmet.html

Ah, thank you Diocle! When I start work on that one, I'll label it as Helmet_Roman_3C_Worthing. And yes, it is a beautiful reconstruction - I hadn't seen the original artifact before.

The radiant crown used in Empire Divided I believe is not real, but happy to be proven wrong.

I think that maybe they did exist - they seem to feature on a lot of Roman coins depicting a few of the Roman Emperors at the time.

Probus

Aurelian

Gordian III

It's also shown on some depictions of Greek rulers as well, before the 3rd century AD.

Ptolemy IV Philopator

CA didn't bother to make it, so it's not in the game's files - I was wondering if there were any realistic artworks / reconstructions of them that I could potentially copy in 3D rather than making my own design based on the coins to give to high-ranking characters who are acting as a politician since, in Rome II, you get a pool of "Important Characters" where you can assign them to be commanders of a military force (army or navy). While they're not commanding, they serve as politicians - their appearance as a politician can also be given a unique uniform art set (age, rank, season) just like the commander's uniform art set, so a rank 1 politician can potentially look very different to a rank 10 politician to help distinguish them in the politics menu. I was thinking of giving the radiant crown the upper tier of politician appearances (rank 8 - 10) to make them stand out from the lower ones (rank 10 I consider to be the faction leader appearance - I wish Rome II had Attila's / Shogun II's unique faction leader uniform appearance, but CA didn't implement it in Rome II for some reason).

No one knows what shield designs officers would have used, but most likely similiar to the rank and file. But various mods have used differing shield designs for officers so the choice is yours really.

Understood, I'll probably just give the same sort of shields to the senior officers / commanders that the rank and file use for now until I think of an appropiate shield type + patterns to give them; I've already got a lot to get on with!

Thanks for all the answers + references!

I've got just one last question for now:

7. What is the name of the helmet shown off in these three images in the spoiler tags below? I'd also like to model + implement that one as well since it's not in the game.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Image #1 - The helmet in the middle


Image #2 - The diagram of the helmet on the top left. It's given a generic name - "ROMAN CAVALRY BRONZE HELMET" - but doesn't specify.




Image #3 - The helmet at the bottom, middle.

[Gäiten]

Hello,

IMHO this helemt is the so-called Guisborough Helmet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guisborough_Helmet

Due the helmets of officers and soldiers, IMHO I think that even soldiers did have them. Officers`s helmets would have been more decorated (gold, silver, gems) and equpped with crests. Having these helmets made of iron and without or only a few decorations for the soldiers would have been reasonable.

[tomySVK]

Check out Osprey´s Sneak Peek at July's Artwork:
https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/ju...k_reveal_2019/

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

D'Amato will have the usual mix of B.S. with actually good reconstruction it looks like. I debate with him quite often. We don't get along but we seem to respect each other at least.

[First Citizen Gallienus]

Well this one looks nice. Where's it from? I have no idea. (Well I got it from here but I don't know where the full image is at: http://www.instazu.com/tag/Lateromanarmy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: