The Takeda Campaign Guide

[Cynik]

Here are some rules I think will benefit any Takeda player who's finding they're either going to loose a campaign or have lost one for next time. I wrote this in another thread but I think it would be more useful here for people who are perhaps struggling with Takeda

I felt the same way you did but on my third campaign I did a lot differently.

1. Never declare war on somebody in the early stages

2. Never break an alliance

3. Recruit and use Metsukes, Ninjas and Monks fully (if you're going into to battle, get them to inspire your troops, if you have to leave a fort ungarrisoned, get a metsuke+monk to watch over it.

4. Do NOT recruit a full samurai army to begin with, go with Ashigaru troops and use the spear wall formation that is so destructive. Take a few units of light cavalry and a good chunk of archers. They are cheap, effective and you're able to have 2-3 armies for the price of one full samurai army meaning you can fight on all fronts.

5. Fight your wars through diplomacy, get allies to break alliances, join the other side of the war, do trade embargos, offer hostages and marriages to cement new alliances. As Takeda, if you decide to not declare war on anybody, you will be at peace for a long time and this is all you can do pretty much. Wait for the right opportunity, don't be impatient.

6. Focus on defence and spears in the Bushido skills section and focus on Chi mostly for farming and diplomacy.

7. Use Vassals to block off areas between enemies to give you some breathing space and focus on another warfront.

You will struggle to begin with and will seem hopeless, but be the mountain and you will be the last one standing in a better position than the rest. I'm on my third campaign on hard carving up Eastern Japan as I will, taking out entire Samurai armies with Ashigaru troops.

If you come across multiple stack armies, get your ninjas and other agents stuck in. The Hojo were twice my size and power, but I allowed them to destroy the vassals I had put up dividing their stacks as I had wanted. I think sent in my ninjas to sabotage the armies (which make them unable to move for one turn).

I then moved in with my one Ashigaru army and using this technique (demoralising them with monks and assassinating their generals and using monks to inspire my own men). I wiped out 3-4 stacks of their armies and took half of their provinces (they were the major power in the area).

Takeda is certainly hard but its a campaign for the patient

[Ritterlichvon86]

I was talking about Legendary difficulty and drop-ins only. Your points work great for hard / very hard though. Still, this time I managed to survive and I'm still going after more than 60 rounds.
Basically it is impossible to hold onto Kai province in the beginning, as both Hojo and Uesugi as well as their vassal and the ally in the west will declare war after less than 15 rounds, no matter what you do. I've won every battle but even with a camp to refresh units (that you cannot get built in time) it would be difficult.

So this time I marched killed Murakami and rushed back to Kai. A few years later Uesugi threatened me with attack my army proceeded south through through Imagawa's lands along the river to Izu and Sagami Fortresses. I could keep my allies neutral on this one. It's a loss of honour, but what is honour compared to victory? One round after I've taken Izu my good Kai was lost. I held on to Izu with the large gold mine and fought off rebellions due to food shortages for more than 10 seasons. The castle got burned two times!! I was glad I had looted Sagami, without the money I would have been bankrupt in that time. After the 10, I marched on Sagami again. It took another 5 seasons to get Sagami stable. From there on I could slash the weakened Hojo, now peasants that were running at my gates every Spring and Autumn. Then beat Tokugawa out of Kai and Northern Shinano to take back what's rightfully mine.

Now in round 60, fighting battle after battle. Losing a single decisive one against an attacking army can cost me the whole campaign. Tokugawa just attacked Kai with a Samurai army of 2400 men against my 1500 Samurai with peasants. My powerful young Daimyo (his father died in battle) leads the troops with two generals.

That's just awesome.

[Mordrorru]

Basically it is impossible to hold onto Kai province in the beginning, as both Hojo and Uesugi as well as their vassal and the ally in the west will declare war after less than 15 rounds, no matter what you do. I've won every battle but even with a camp to refresh units (that you cannot get built in time) it would be difficult.

Maybe for you. In my Takeda legendary campaign Hojo and Immagawa have been my strong allies for the entire game so far, and I've gone far over 15 turns.

[Ritterlichvon86]

Same for the Imagawa for me. There has to be a reason for this, as I have tried it 2 times to keep the ambitious Hojo allied. Third time I struck first. Both times I've kept enough troops in Kai, managed to keep equal power level and keep relations above 100. Maybe it's just random and dynamic, so I just got bad luck these 2 times. Makes it more interesting

[Marcus1]

My tips is to get to a cost as quikly sas possible, Having no navy in an island nation is suicide

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Something else I've done which I forgot to mention is this: give you allies military access when they are boxed in. I had the Imagawa get attacked by Hojo and they got down to 1 settlement. We got peace with Hojo then I gave them military access (we were allied) and they took out several small clans to my north, securing my northern border and being generally a big help. They are also now fighting the Hattori some, which really helped me out, since Hattori had 2 big stacks fighting Imagawa and not me

[adecoy95]

My tips is to get to a cost as quikly sas possible, Having no navy in an island nation is suicide

island nation? isn't this the thread for the master of horses?

[Eisenhagel]

Rushing the Hojo is essential. I lost my first game because the hojo conquered whole eastern japan because i kept their foes occupied (being their ally). what did it get me? they declared war on me on turn 90 (attitude very friendly), while my daimyo was fighting near kyoto.

Their starting provinces also have good specialities.

[zorphon]

Think I've decided that Takeda is one of my favorite, if not the favorite clan for Shogun 2 for me. They are just so fun and from the beginning they have varied armies since you have cavalry to utilize. Makes it much more interesting.

In order of my favorites that I've played so far:
1) Takeda
2) Hattori
3) Hojo

[Amur_Tiger]

Rushing the Hojo is essential. I lost my first game because the hojo conquered whole eastern japan because i kept their foes occupied (being their ally). what did it get me? they declared war on me on turn 90 (attitude very friendly), while my daimyo was fighting near kyoto.

Their starting provinces also have good specialities.

I'm going to back you up on this, finally managed to get Takeda out of it's starting situation intact and started to grow, after a whole bunch of fighting to get Vassels and such in north Shinano I rushed south to take Musashi, due to pressure from Hojo and Satami I ended up losing this but it had cost Hojo enough that they declared peace to fight Satami, they were crippled enough at this point that their two starting provinces revolted I rushed them and setup camp. Hojo died to Satami a bit later who themselves started to get Hammered by Date who'd taken over much of the land east of that, at the same time Uesegi started to attack Kai which I had to pull out of and basically turtle in the corner while trying to keep the provinces happy, at this point food shortages made this challanging. Thankfully pulled back to just those two good provinces I was able to hold the line and start to expand once more a while later, I've since taken Kai and Musashi back, gotten lasting peace with Uesegi and managed to take Suruga, Totomi and Mikawa from Hattori who'd conquered the area before moving out to engage in other conflicts, then foolishly engaged me as my situation stabilized to the point of being comfortable expanding. Right now I'm planning to hit both Hattori and Date at the same time, making vassels in the west to cover me there while taking land for myself to the east to get the perfect triumverate of specialties, blacksmithing, horse breeding and paper making all under my heel.

Oh and don't ignore honor, it really really seems to matter a lot when it comes to diplomacy, my previous campain as Shimazu basically had diplomacy removed due to two lootings I'd done early on when I was strapped for cash where here I can make peace with suitably battered foes and make trade agreements with anyone I'm not fighting with.

[Toorima]

Right now, I'm really struggling with the Takeda, and I'm only playing on "hard".

Problem is, that the Imagawa stay friendly (though not allied). But the Hojo betrayed me, Uesugi constantly sends big armies and now the Yamanouchi have joined my enemies too.

I think the biggest strategical challenge for the Takeda is that their realm ist far stretched (at least: mine is). From Nord-Shinano down to the former Satami-territory it is pretty tough to defend all borders with just one field army. So now, Musashi, a key province to my trade and defense, is pinced in by three enemies from two sides.

The Uesugi are defeated each time they descend to Takeda territory, but they keep my army busy, so I can't pursue my revenge against the treacherous Hojo. I can't neither conquer their realm once and for all, because they cross Yamanouchi territory before entering my territory, thus having a strong buffer to their realm. The Hojos are no match for themselves but are constantly in my back whilst I defend myselves against Yamanouchi and Uesugi incursions.
The Yamanouchi then pose the second real challenge and they can send an army into Musashi in just two turns.
Last but not least, with my economy hardpressed by the war efforts, I have constantly to fear rebellion in Kai or North-Shinano with scarcely enough garrisoned troops to defend my strongholds there.

This is my Strategy (not yet tried):

I will place a huge garrison into Musashi which can ward off the Western attacks from the Uesugi and Yannouchi. Once I have successfully beaten their siege assault, I will then eradicate the Hojo with a swift field army led by Takeda Nobushige (which I have leveled to be especially fast moving on the campaign map). With this accomplished, I will keep on the defensive, crushing enemy armies entering Musashi until my economy can sustain two field armies invading Yamanouchi territory.

This will be close...One defeat, and I'm undone.

[Amur_Tiger]

Yeah this was the quandry I was struggling with, I found that the best way to deal with it was vassal north shinano, although Uesugi did attack through that anyways it was enough of a delay that I could focus further south on Musashi and the Hojo territories. They key here is really to get into Hojo's corner and prepare to weather the storm, there you can make really good money, build up your infantry production and defend effectively, doing the same in Kai is nearly impossible and I know I ended up giving Kai up for a time to limit my exposure to just a few foes. Holding Kai and even moreso Kai and North Shinano exposes you to at least two more hostiles and two more potentials that play nicer, at least initially.

[Corona1]

Well on VH/N I managed to get to 11 provinces and I'm winning most battles easily now. The key, for me, was to keep good relations with the other clans and then turn on them when they were weakened. For instance, Hojo and Date were at war, so I broke my alliance with Hojo and allied with Date. Do whatever you can to stay on the winning side, give away brides, hostages, money, etc

I'd recommend not having any vassals unless your territory completely surrounds them. The AI doesn't seem to recognize that a clan is your vassal, so your allies will regularly attack vassals, which hurts your honor

[Ma'ahes]

It seems the Takeda require a lot of aggressive maneuvering, moreso than other factions. They are the masters of the horse, and yet have no real ability to sustain cavalry armies due to the poor income generated via the mountain pass. While your enemies can capture provinces along the coast and immediately get a +1430 to income, you're stuck with a lousy +940, if that. I've seen Hida at around 880...not really even worth capturing. So, as Amur_Tiger suggested, you consolidate in the south and hit the Hojo to expand there while keeping nice with the neighbors, or you try being mobile and not build up buildings for a while. What does this mean? Well, prepare to be the Mongols! Take that nice stack of yours and move it to wherever you feel like, within a decent amount of turns that is. You'll lose the cavalry bonus, but if you can capture north of Hida, you'll have four provinces close to one another, and that all obtain money at a decent rate. Now, it is entirely possible to rush north and not incite the ire of your southern neighbors, but I've found that as you stretch out your forces it becomes inevitable that someone is going to go for the easy target. So really, your main options are head south or head north...going east-west or even getting stuck in quagmire from an enemy in those directions is no bueno. Get a good production base that is easily defensible ASAP or watch as your full stack is unable to cover the immense ground in the mountain pass.

[WelshDragon]

Wow, I tried a Takeda campaign last night, got owned within 15 turns... made allies with everyone I could, then Usegi declares war, I take a stack and defeat them at a river crossing, then Hojo breaks alliance and attacks, and one of my other allies switches sides and joins them. Tough faction! I agree with the advice, it seems you are surrounded by enemies, taking out Hojo ASAP seems the only way to survive. Going to try again today. I have to say, it was frustrating, but refreshingly realistic, as any other TW games this would never happen

[Toorima]

My Strategy, lined out above, worked out in the end. I have to admit though that I needed to do some reloading.

The Hojo tried to snatch Musashi, but got wrecked by massed ashigaru archers lined up at the fortress walls. With my main fied army (commaned by Takeda Nobushige) I then defeated an invading Uesugi army. Their army was composed mainly out off ashigaru archers which I cut down exhaustively with my cavalry after they had been routed.

I used the opportunity to conclude a peace treaty with the Uesugi (Yamanouchi was binded by that treaty too, because they are vassals of the Uesugi). Safe for now, I turned southwards, eliminating the Hojo. Their only Fortress was easily snatched by use of vastly superior numbers, since their samurai had been ruined at the walls of Musashi half a year before.

Something which was really worthwile was proceeding further south east to the rebel held province Izu (I think that's the name, it's a peninsula). The province is blessed with rich gold deposits. Taking it from the easily routed rebels boosted my income.

War business finished for that year, I concentrated on improving farming and infrastructure, and kept on the defense against the Uesugi. When they attacked once more, with an army led by their Daimyo, their forces got crushed at North-Shinano. With their leader killed in battle, they paid me the incredible sum of 8000 koku to make peace.

They now have again declared war. Backed by an improved economy, I'm now bringing war onto their own territory...

[StormtrooperDan]

I've only been playing on Takeda Legendary (I like their red armor and plus I've watched Kagemusha!), and I've lost like 6 or 7 times now...but improving each time I play. The best I've done so far is getting up to 5 provinces: taking Shinano, the province north west of Shinano, and two Uesugi provinces wiping them out. My alliances at the time were with Hojo, Imagawa and Sagami.

Right after I take out Uesugi, Hojo declares war with me, and my allies Imagawa and Sagami chose not to join in the war with me and thus breaking our alliances. And after a few turns both of them also declares war on me. I heavily fortify Kai with almost a full stack, and thinking that I would be okay to hold off a stack or two of the invading Hojo.

Then WOW, Hojo decides he is just going to seige with his two stacks and starve me out! Because he is seiging Kai, I lose all trade income and became broke in two turns. It went down hill from there and I lost Kai and Shinano and most of my armies.

I was really devastated and haven't played single player in a week, and playing mostly multiplayer.

I do have a few tricks that works well in the beginning:

Turn 1: Build two yari in Kai in the first turn and put your army between the town and stables. The invading Murakami will not raid your stables and will get next to your town but not attack.

Turn 2: Leave two yari and one bow in Kai while taking your generals and the rest of your army north into North Shinano. The two yair, one bow, and the samurai retain will hold off the Murakami stack of 5 at the end of the turn.

Turn 3: Take the lightly defended North Shinano.

Another trick is that when Hojo asks for alliance, give him your kid as a hostage and make him pay you 130 gold. This will secure a better alliance and give you more gold in the process.

[Basileos Leandros I]

Turling with the Takeda is IMHO required.

Don't blitz because not even the superior cavalry will get you around. Turtle a bit, build up your forces and secure alliances if you don't want to be eaten alive by the Hojo early on. Don't even dare to break the alliance or it will break on your head and you will find yourself with a couple of enemy stacks just outside of your own province of Kai.

Patience. And military strategy. Since resources are very limited try and skirmish as much as possible (use bowmen early on and cheap ashigaru).

[Toorima]

I have showed patience and it payed - the Hojo are history, the Uesugi destroyed. Now I'm advancing against their former allies, the Date. There is just one problem with patience: my time is running out to win the required provinces and take Kyoto!

[Prophet0A]

Helpful Hojo and Imagawa ftw!