The Hattori Campaign Guide

[Dodge]

What unique units does the Hattori caln hvae?

[izuata]

I'm having issues trying to do what is recommended here, on Hard difficulty.

I can take Asai but in literally my 2nd or 3rd turn, every clan gangs up on me. I ally myself only with the Shogunate cause the others hate me anyway. Now I wouldn't mind just crushing those minor clans however in the third turn I just can't amount enough men to do that.

Any advice?

[Noif de Bodemloze]

I'm having issues trying to do what is recommended here, on Hard difficulty.

I can take Asai but in literally my 2nd or 3rd turn, every clan gangs up on me. I ally myself only with the Shogunate cause the others hate me anyway. Now I wouldn't mind just crushing those minor clans however in the third turn I just can't amount enough men to do that.

Any advice?

I'am not sure about alliance with Shogunate, because I'am never seen move their ass out from Kyoto provinces. They are good with trade, but nothing else.

did you tried made any trades with neighbour clans? Offering money/hostage for peace?

What unique units does the Hattori caln hvae?

No, they don't have.

[Hounf of Culan]

What unique units does the Hattori caln hvae?

The only "unique unit" in the sense that it has a special statistical bonus are their superior Kisho ninja which are stronger and cheaper than other kisho ninja. However, their campaign map ninjas also get a big buff and all their ashigaru/samurai/monks have the ability to deploy almost anywhere on the battlefield except the enemy's deployment zone which allows for some really clever tactics.

[izuata]

I'am not sure about alliance with Shogunate, because I'am never seen move their ass out from Kyoto provinces. They are good with trade, but nothing else.

did you tried made any trades with neighbour clans? Offering money/hostage for peace?


No, they don't have.

I thought you recommended to ally with Shogunate. I must have misread. However, if you recommend to ally with the other surrounding clans, that means locking yourself into one region Who should I ally with and who should I go to war with? For me what keeps happening now is if I go after Tutsui (or whatever their damn name is), I get sandwiched between the other two clans.

[Noif de Bodemloze]

I thought you recommended to ally with Shogunate. I must have misread. However, if you recommend to ally with the other surrounding clans, that means locking yourself into one region Who should I ally with and who should I go to war with? For me what keeps happening now is if I go after Tutsui (or whatever their damn name is), I get sandwiched between the other two clans.

Not make allies with all neighbours (Perhaps I was wrong with Shogunate, because first I wondering they can make bad damage, but they are the lazy clan ). Even 1-2 is good, but better for your situation don't make alliance with all your neighbour or you will be locked yourself to 1 province but if someone your neighbour is weak and have not much armies. Then you should take it. Now I have 1 alliance with my neighbour one and some others from somewhere in Japan. I don't remember as well now about begin. I remember wrote up to tragety, seek information about your neighbour are they trully strong with allies or weak selfishes.
During playing and seeking information here I have found new information, like Kyoto's army has never moved out from Kyoto province.


I would update this Hattori -information really soon.

[Noif de Bodemloze]

Updated to 2.3
- Fixed/changed old informations to new one
- added "What you should to know about "Hattori"
- Guide about "Kisho ninjas - who they are" is added.


if anything come up to mind, what should be in guide. Tell it here and I can update it later.

[pilleman182]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Then your ninjas have small advantage and kill those bloody bastards.

whahahaha xD

[izuata]

Still, I keep getting gangbanged. It's based down like this right:

If I take Owi in my first turn, I just end up getting war declared on me by Itakki and two other clans to the east (Saito or something, I forget). I can hold off one, maybe even two with that region, but the third one's stack keeps killing me sooner or later and taking the region so this method just WILL NOT work for me. Sooner or later the southern clans that surround me also declare war on me leading me to get completely raped.

[homefry]

How long does stealth remain active for kisho ninja?

[Noif de Bodemloze]

Still, I keep getting gangbanged. It's based down like this right:

If I take Owi in my first turn, I just end up getting war declared on me by Itakki and two other clans to the east (Saito or something, I forget). I can hold off one, maybe even two with that region, but the third one's stack keeps killing me sooner or later and taking the region so this method just WILL NOT work for me. Sooner or later the southern clans that surround me also declare war on me leading me to get completely raped.

Which difficult level you play? Are you tried offering some money or hostage for peace?

How long does stealth remain active for kisho ninja?

if I am not wrong, the stealth will working about 30sec and cooldown of stealth will take 1-3min.

[izuata]

Which difficult level you play? Are you tried offering some money or hostage for peace?


if I am not wrong, the stealth will working about 30sec and cooldown of stealth will take 1-3min.

Hard. I don't play on Hard cause I think I'm good, but everytime I played on Normal it didn't feel like a challenge, I could just auto-resolve my way through half the map.

I have however pulled my together and got a decent game going! I control basically the whole peninsula you start on. My economy is still pretty cause I have large armies to sit in my border towns in case my allies betrayed me and didn't build any economic buildings along the way.

Here's a screenshot of my current affairs:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Check out Asai And only because I kept convincing them to join me in wars. I'm doing well now, all the big ones are allies or very friendly to me and nobody has betrayed me yet. I have at least one buffer of an ally between any other faction so nobody can harm me and I'm expanding my economy at the moment.

Any advice?

[Devilies]

I'll chip in with my experience of the Hattori campaign. I started off allying only with the current shogunate and making war on Asai as Tsutsui. What I started off with was wiping out Asai within 2-3 turns and then moving to Tsutsui in west fast, taking them out. Tsutsui will try to kill you while you are waging war on Asai, but the Shogunate will kill this army off, giving you a free town to get.

Tsutsui starts out being allied with Hatakeyama which will turn on you as well. And they will in turn become your next rival to quickly take out. When this phase was over, I started my diplomacy with others, using the ninjas you get (three Sake Dens with Ugi, Asai province and one Hatekayama province). Making peace with Hatekayama will result in decent relations with their friends later on.

I won't spoil my entire voyage but this is how it looks right now (played on Normal!):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If I calculated it right, I should become legendary with my next province, and as I haven't been in a war for a long time, I've taken time to massively increase economy and recruit options. This is my second proper game since I got the game and I'm quite proud. Next game I'll work on a proper economy earlier, but this game worked out pretty nice

Btw, could anyone explain why I don't have any borders? I'm playing on a low graphic setting, but that shouldn't make that difference...

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

Economy:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Diplomacy

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Clan overview

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[the_intricacy]

I too had trouble following Noif's strategy on harder levels, so let me post an alternate method. This worked for me on my current turn 55 Hard Campaign, and I works on Legendary (the beginning at least):

Step one- Don't kill the only friends you got.
Hattori is a little different in that their beginning missions aren't "go kill that guy". So don't. Like other posts mention, you will get ganged up if you do on harder difficulties.

Turn one, make trade agreement, alliance, and military access with Asai. (The best time to exchange millitary access is when you first make an alliance. After that, it'll usually cost you.) I know, those fertile farms in Omi are tempting, but you'll get them eventually. Don't ally with the Shogun yet, I'll explain later. Don't sabotage anything yet. Trade with who will trade with you. In the beginning don't give the anyone any money, hostages, etc for trade agreements, especially the Tsutsui and the Ikko ikki.

Send your ninja around and make contact with the Hatakeyama, Hatano, Sakai and Ikko Ikki. In future turns, I use the ninja to do this a lot. In the best case, you can make a trade agreement beyond your immediate neighbors, which is good since having far off allies allows you to gang up on the clans between.

Don't forget to research (chi), and upgrade your farm. No units.


Step two- Wait.
Turn two: Gambling hall.
Turn three: Build roads OR go sabotage something and then start building archers. You want to maximize that "ample supplies" bonus. Park all your armies in the bottom left forest of Iga.


Step three- War with Tsutsui
On Hard, I got a message a turn before the Tsutsui came after me. Usually they attack turn 5, but they declared war on turn 4 on my 2nd Legendary run though. Sometimes the Asai will send a stack to help, sometimes not. If they do help, make sure you capture Yamato before they do.

It is after the Tsutsui attack that you want to ally/millitary access with the Ashikaga. You may have to wait until you take Yamato to do so, but I prefer to a) call my allies for help, and b) not have the broken treaties penalty with the Shogun. Your relations with Ashikaga should prevent them from joining the Tsutsui in attacking you, but I suppose it's possible.

If the war with the Tsutsui takes longer than three turns, you did it wrong, and are probably screwed. Build only troops as long as "ample supplies" last.


Step four- carving out a pocket
Split your forces up (and generals), one sitting in Yamato, and one sitting in the forests south of Omi.

With southern army target the Kitabatage, as they attack if they haven't already. The danger in capturing Ise too early is that anyone coming from the east might go after Ise instead of Omi. Alternatively or after that, swing west with that army and liberate Kii and Kawachi from the Hatakeyama... hopefully they've been spending money on troops elsewhere.

The northern army should help defend Omi from the Sakai, Ikko Ikki and the Saito, who will likely decalre war against the Asai. Keep your army in the woods to ambush in case they decided to swing south to treaten Omi and Iga's castles at the same time. I find it useful to not break the alliance with the Asai and build up diplomatic ties to the Hatano, the Ashikaga and whoever is emerging in the Tokugawa/Oda spot. However, at some point, maybe even as early as turn 6 or so, move your army just out of reinforcing range of the Omi castle let the invaders kill the Asai. Then, on the next turn, before they are able to resupply or repair the castle, take Omi.

I like to take Settsu to wall of the west, the port and the library. Wakaza and Echizen are nice too, so you can start pumping out trade ships to your north (watch out for pirates, though). If so, I recommend trying to pry apart the alliance between the Hatano and the Shogun and then taking Tango and Tamba. I was unable to do that, so my borders are little funky. Something to take care of after the RD I guess.

Step five- Diplomatic Jujitsu

From there, making allies of your neighbors, and then slowly using agents to carve into your allies, even as they remain your allies. I highly recommend specializing at least a couple of monks into the Agitator talent, stirring unrest in your allies' territories, letting the rebels take over, and then conquering the rebels. So, yeah, the Holy sites that you should have will come in handy. Speaking of which, while it's tempting to put a Burakumin in Iga, I recommend putting a ninjitsu school there instead. When developed, Kii and Omi will be your economic centers, so it's best to put smuggling networks there. If you're going to use Kisho, recruit in Iga with a Ninja Clan Network there.


So good luck, let me know if this helps out. This is my current campaign's map, which is a little messed up, I know. I'm just on the edge of Realm Divide, so I'm building up my infrastructure before I kick things off by backstabbing Kyoto. As you can see from the amount of rebellions, my monks are busy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Hounf of Culan]

Personally I disagree with making friends with any of Hattori's neighbors except the shogunate. Allying with the shogunate is nice because you get access through kyoto which is a road hub. Asai is my first victim to fall as Omi is a rich province. Next its normally a race between you and Tsutsui to take out the kitakike??? light blue guys. THen eventually you push left on Hatakeyama until you control the whole little peninsula.

I feel it's best to make friends with allies who are farther away, like Takeda.

[the_intricacy]

Personally I disagree with making friends with any of Hattori's neighbors except the shogunate. Allying with the shogunate is nice because you get access through kyoto which is a road hub. Asai is my first victim to fall as Omi is a rich province. Next its normally a race between you and Tsutsui to take out the kitakike??? light blue guys. THen eventually you push left on Hatakeyama until you control the whole little peninsula.

I feel it's best to make friends with allies who are farther away, like Takeda.

Your stratagem is what I typically do... for other clans. What I'm basically advocating here is to embrace the Hattori as backstabbing manipulators; your units cost 12.5% more than other clans and almost 26% more in upkeep. You need to use your cunning to let your enemies fight your other enemies for you. Making a ring of allies and eating the apple from it's core sounds pretty ninja to me. Lemme look back on my saves and tell you why:

From turns 1-8 Omi makes around 2050-2200 a turn, 30% is around 700. Say you conquer it turn 1, you'll make 6 turns of income by turn 8 (one turn to repair), roughly 4200. Sounds good, right?

Using the strategy outlined above, on turn eight (hard) I just pushed the Ikko Ikki out of Omi. From turns 1-7 I gained roughly 78-100 a turn (6 turns) from trading with the Asai. They also optimistically built a sake den and upgraded their farms (1600 + 950). That adds up to 3100, roughly.

But by turn 7, they've produced 12 units (you'd only to make 6), and started off with 4, all of which the Asai paid at least 100 per unit per turn to upkeep. Let's say they produced 1:1 yari:bow, and that works out to 4020 in recruitment cost, all whom died in the name of protecting Omi from invaders you'd have to fight anyway.

Anyway, this is for Hard and up. As mentioned about, killing Asai is a perfectly adequate start on easier difficulties. Maybe you'll be able power your way though; or you could make like a Ninja and use your head, not just your brawn.

[homefry]

Making a ring of allies and eating away at their flanks sounds pretty ninja to me.

haha. +1.

you definitely don't want to go direct against takeda or jinbo. they are usually allied with date and if you fight against 1, the takeda usually comes at you with 3-4 full stacks.

[the_intricacy]

you definitely don't want to go direct against takeda or jinbo. they are usually allied with date and if you fight against 1, the takeda usually comes at you with 3-4 full stacks.

Heh, look at my map in the earlier post, I used Oda to kill Takeda, and then took care of the Date myself (probably not the wisest tactical move).

edit:
just in case you're curious, here's how my rotten apple strategy turned out:

I waited around 6 years to get my econ more or less self-sufficient.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

4 Years later:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Poor Oda did all my fighting for me, mysteriously lost his hard-fought lands to buddist rebellions, and was still my ally at the end of game. You can see from the screenshot that he accidentally fell out a window the 2nd to last turn. Whoops.

[Darcane]

Specialist Hattori units can hide effectively in battle

Hi

Do you know exactly what it means ?!

Thanks

[Noif de Bodemloze]

Hi

Do you know exactly what it means ?!

Thanks

Units can hiding in the battlefield

why asking? This information is from Hattori-clan information.