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  1. #1

    Default Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Full article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110315/...us_afghanistan

    Summary of Gen. Petraeus first congressional hearing since taking command in Afganistan.

    Petraeus says Taliban's military momentum stalled

    WASHINGTON – In his first formal assessment of the war in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus said Tuesday that much of the Taliban's battlefield momentum has been halted, putting the U.S. on course to begin pulling out troops in July and shifting security responsibility to the Afghans.

    In testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Petraeus cautioned that security progress is still "fragile and reversible," with much difficult work ahead as the Taliban launch an expected spring offensive. It was the general's first testimony on the war since he took command in Kabul last summer.

    "The momentum achieved by the Taliban in Afghanistan since 2005 has been arrested in much of the country and reversed in a number of important areas," Petraeus said. "However, while the security progress achieved over the past year is significant, it is also fragile and reversible."

    Testifying alongside the general, the Pentagon top civilian policy official, Michele Flournoy, said, "Our strategy is working." She said U.S., NATO and Afghan forces are regaining critical territory and wresting the initiative from the insurgents.
    This guy is an amazing general, I can't believe it took so long to put him in chage of the war.


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  2. #2
    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    If Petraeus gets Afghanistan cleaned up than hello presidential candidate.

    I would vote for him in a heart beat.

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    RO Citizen's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    If Petraeus gets Afghanistan cleaned up than hello presidential candidate.

    I would vote for him in a heart beat.
    Why would a nice-good general be a good politician, too?
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    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by RO Citizen View Post
    Why would a nice-good general be a good politician, too?
    It would be a far greater background than a law professor.
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    Lord de Lyonesse's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    If Petraeus gets Afghanistan cleaned up than hello presidential candidate.

    I would vote for him in a heart beat.

    I don't mean to insult you but I think it's frankly pathetic that because a military man is seemingly good at organising the killing at those whom his superiors have desired him to should instantly make him applicable for a career in politics..

    Jesus, America keeps politics and religion seperate.. You would be wise to keep the military and democracy a safe distance from eachother too..

    Also, I don't think he'll get that far. Afghanistan is known as the graveyard of empires. Perhaps it's the place where in future, historian will look back and view it as the time when American hegemony fell and Chinese power accedes?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdMace833 View Post
    The war in Afghanistan is going straight to hell. Americans need to be pissed. Can't they understand what is really being said in these hearings. The war is going to be extended through 2014, even after everyone else has left. Furthermore, there is almost no talk of changing grand strategy and the testimony given about Pakistan was BS. Do most American's think this is o.k or normal. No war should ever have to last this long and Obama promised an end to such wars. For some reason the media is not putting this into the proper perspective that it should be in, why is that?
    Because they own the Fox news and many of the other big t.v corporation. They are desperate for American's not to feel that Afghanistan will be "another 'Nam":



    I'm sure if the war is extended and men are thrown out into the desert without any real objectives; it will simply be a desert Vietnam..
    Last edited by Lord de Lyonesse; March 16, 2011 at 06:51 PM.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse View Post
    a military man is seemingly good at organising the killing at those whom his superiors have desired him to should instantly make him applicable for a career in politics..
    So basically, he's too good as a politician?
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  7. #7
    Lord de Lyonesse's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    So basically, he's too good as a politician?
    No. Not at all. General Petraeus seems a good commander but that shouldn't ultimately make one wish to vote for him in a presidential election. A good soldier could be a rubbish politician. You can't simply vote for someone simply because they like dickwaving.

    language may offend:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Quote Originally Posted by HissingNewt View Post
    When the military is of the people, why should it be kept completely separate from politics? What do you mean by keeping them separate?
    Well, to answer your questions, firstly the two should be kept seperately because when the two unite what results is typically called a *DICTATORSHIP* and doesn't give a what the people think. Secondly your idealistic notion that the military is 'of the people' bollocks. The two things 'military' and 'of the people' are two contradictory things. Having a military implies that some people don't agree with what you say and thus you are not representative of their views.

    Anyway, in order to bring the thread back to its OP. I would hope humanity has achieved singularity and transcendence by then. I think it's time we come and shed our evolutionary baggage of ape-like tribalism and enter the Global Age and culturally unify within the social phenomenon of globalisation.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse View Post
    No. Not at all. General Petraeus seems a good commander but that shouldn't ultimately make one wish to vote for him in a presidential election. A good soldier could be a rubbish politician. You can't simply vote for someone simply because they like dickwaving.

    language may offend:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Well, to answer your questions, firstly the two should be kept seperately because when the two unite what results is typically called a *DICTATORSHIP* and doesn't give a what the people think. Secondly your idealistic notion that the military is 'of the people' bollocks. The two things 'military' and 'of the people' are two contradictory things. Having a military implies that some people don't agree with what you say and thus you are not representative of their views.

    Anyway, in order to bring the thread back to its OP. I would hope humanity has achieved singularity and transcendence by then. I think it's time we come and shed our evolutionary baggage of ape-like tribalism and enter the Global Age and culturally unify within the social phenomenon of globalisation.
    I don't think you fully understand the what the responsibilities of high up positions in places like CENTCOM and ISAF entail. It involves a whole lot of politics. The COIN manual is equally as political in strategy as it is in military tactics.

    The relevance of being in a leadership in the military to being Presidential material entrails that the person is educated, grasps administrative ability, can make tough decisions and handle unforeseen events, and are actually typically more avoidant of open war. Usually the warmongers come from a largely political elite background, not so much the military. Even John McCain voiced reservations about the events leading to Iraqi intervention and the handling of the Iraq War by the Bush administration and he was never in a position of great leadership in the military.

    Of course, this doesn't suggest the person's inherent merit, long-term administrative abilities, economic suavity, how they present themselves in public, or how well they judge action or inaction in social concerns.
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  9. #9
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse View Post
    No. Not at all. General Petraeus seems a good commander but that shouldn't ultimately make one wish to vote for him in a presidential election. A good soldier could be a rubbish politician. You can't simply vote for someone simply because they like dickwaving.

    language may offend:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Well, to answer your questions, firstly the two should be kept seperately because when the two unite what results is typically called a *DICTATORSHIP* and doesn't give a what the people think. Secondly your idealistic notion that the military is 'of the people' bollocks. The two things 'military' and 'of the people' are two contradictory things. Having a military implies that some people don't agree with what you say and thus you are not representative of their views.

    Anyway, in order to bring the thread back to its OP. I would hope humanity has achieved singularity and transcendence by then. I think it's time we come and shed our evolutionary baggage of ape-like tribalism and enter the Global Age and culturally unify within the social phenomenon of globalisation.
    I think you ought to read Politics if you think a civil servant elected to higher office by his fellow citizenry based on his managerial skills and executive abilities and an impressive track record of successful endeavors both martial and humanitarian in nature qualifies as a dictatorship.

    That's like classic Democratic Republicanism. Military men (I'd say women but who are we kidding...) are good candidates for leadership because they have already proven themselves to be leaders. They also tend to be less concerned with the evils of petty politics. They tend to do what they want and tell politicians to go screw themselves. That's how it should be.

    Public service should be a requirement for government office. If you won't fight for your country what right do you have lead it.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; March 17, 2011 at 09:37 AM.
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  10. #10
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse View Post
    I don't mean to insult you but I think it's frankly pathetic that because a military man is seemingly good at organising the killing at those whom his superiors have desired him to should instantly make him applicable for a career in politics..
    There is enough on record about the guy to form an idea as to his political views. I too think it is absurd to put the guy on that pedestal in particular, but I can say I would vote for him based on his experiences and his likely foreign policy views.

    His domestic views are not really known...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse View Post
    Also, I don't think he'll get that far. Afghanistan is known as the graveyard of empires.
    Known as that, by people who don't know any better...

    In 1842, the British lost a nasty war that ended when fierce tribesmen notoriously destroyed an army of thousands retreating from Kabul. And, of course, the Soviets spent almost a decade waging war in Afghanistan, only to give up ignominiously in 1989.

    But in fact, these are only two isolated examples. Since Alexander the Great, plenty of conquerors have subdued Afghanistan. In the early 13th century, Genghis Khan’s Mongol hordes ravaged the country’s two major cities. And in 1504, Babur, the founder of the Mughal Empire in India, easily took the throne in Kabul. Even the humiliation of 1842 did not last. Three and a half decades later, the British initiated a punitive invasion and ultimately won the second Anglo-Afghan war, which gave them the right to determine Afghanistan’s foreign policy.

    The Soviet disaster of the 1980s, for its part, cannot be credited to the Afghans’ legendary fighting skills alone, as the mujahideen were kept afloat by billions of dollars worth of aid from the United States and Saudi Arabia and sophisticated American military hardware like anti-aircraft Stinger missiles, which ended the Soviets’ total air superiority.

    In any case, today’s American-led intervention in Afghanistan can hardly be compared to the Soviet occupation. The Soviet Army employed a scorched-earth policy, killing more than a million Afghans, forcing some five million more to flee the country, and sowing land mines everywhere.

    While the American military is killing too many Afghan civilians, in any given year the numbers are in the hundreds, not the hundreds of thousands. And even the most generous estimates of today’s Taliban insurgency suggest it is no more than 20,000 men. About 10 times as many Afghans fought against the Soviet occupation.

    The Soviet experience in Afghanistan weighed heavily on the minds of Bush administration policymakers, who kept a “light footprint” lest Afghans rebuff American and allied soldiers as hated occupiers. But as it turned out, the Afghans were widely enthusiastic about being liberated from the Taliban. In an ABC/BBC poll conducted in 2005, a full four years after the fall of the Taliban, 8 in 10 Afghans expressed a favorable opinion of the United States — an extraordinary proportion in a Muslim nation — and the same number supported the American-led overthrow of the Taliban in their country.

    And just last month, in a new poll by ABC and the BBC, 58 percent of Afghans named the Taliban as the greatest threat to their nation. Only 8 percent said it was the United States. And while only 47 percent of Afghans still had a favorable opinion of America, the Taliban fared far worse, with just 7 percent approval.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/opinion/28bergen.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord de Lyonesse View Post
    I'm sure if the war is extended and men are thrown out into the desert without any real objectives; it will simply be a desert Vietnam..
    ?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Hmm. I'm just wondering, is Petraeus better then McChrystal was?

    Otherwise, good news.
    Last edited by NotYetRegistered; March 15, 2011 at 10:54 AM.
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  12. #12
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by NotYetRegistered View Post
    Hmm. I'm just wondering, is Petraeus better then McChrystal was?
    Petraeus is simply a different face. He has loosened up restrictions a bit in the South (which has led to a fundamental shift in Taliban tactics due to losses, which in turn keeps them further away from the population), but much of what he will get credit for was instituted by McChrystal. And the hallmark of this strategy shift was the HVT campaign.

    There is a lot of debate as to how effective it is within the military community. Some people simply don't like it, I do. The Taliban is scraping the bottom of the barrel with respect to commanders. A really high tempo campaign that was averaging a dozen raids a night. Never going to hear about most of it. Unless it goes south and civilians are accidentally killed.

    I think it is even more valuable considering we are not simply jailing these commanders, but most times they are being removed entirely. The Afghan prison system is becoming problematic in terms of further radicalizing prisoners. Not having these well connected people to increase that, is big. Just remove them from the equation entirely.

    The one major thing that Petraeus did that cannot be attributed to McChrystal was keeping the pressure on the Taliban in the winter. This was highly criticized by human rights groups, etc, for whatever reason, I don't know why.

    The Taliban was not going to be allowed to simply pack it in and plan for the spring/summer in an unmolested fashion. So much of the momentum they are able to gather is done in the winter when everyone returns 'home', and they get planning done at some point.

    While the number of drone strikes has dropped, the raids continue. And you are talking about putting people in areas, and in ways, that even with the Taliban knowing the ISAF strategy, were apparently still plenty surprised, and they caught some big fish that still have not been announced. So they could be providing some good intel. And they will not have the same momentum as they did in the past going into the spring.

    Understand that the Taliban do not have any major population centers to lean on that are not outright owned, or at least heavily contested by ISAF. They are being pushed further out from the population that is forced to feed them.

    Here is a 3-page article written by McChrystal about how he countered the Taliban network with his own, from the Iraq model.
    Last edited by mrmouth; March 15, 2011 at 07:04 PM.
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  13. #13
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    yes mission accomplished taliban will never come back once the western troops left. next good news: the easter bunny is comming in a month.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post
    yes mission accomplished taliban will never come back once the western troops left. next good news: the easter bunny is comming in a month.
    Clearly you failed to do a something thing, like read the actual article where he clearly states it is fragile and reversible. Here Ill make it easy for you

    "However, while the security progress achieved over the past year is significant, it is also fragile and reversible."

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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    If the Taliban read this they can hide in Pakistan till july and then only have the Afgan soldiers to fight.

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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Wouldn't it be better to wait until fighting season before start making for such judgements?
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to wait until fighting season before start making for such judgements?
    I think so
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to wait until fighting season before start making for such judgements?
    Well no, because if they halted their progress then they halted their progress. He still said things were in a fragile state and that it could change. It doesn't make what he said any less true.

    Anyways, look at this. Some pretty damn impressive work by two British Army snipers. Has to be one of the greatest stories regarding snipers that I've ever read.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jin View Post
    Anyways, look at this. Some pretty damn impressive work by two British Army snipers. Has to be one of the greatest stories regarding snipers that I've ever read.
    I'm telling you, a hundred men like that spread across the entirety of Helmand and the Taliban won't even dare to return.

    Combat terror with terror, IMO. I don't know much of military operations, but it seems to me that what these men are doing is a thousand times more effective than anything any army batallion is capable of.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Petraeus is winning in Afganistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I'm telling you, a hundred men like that spread across the entirety of Helmand and the Taliban won't even dare to return.

    Combat terror with terror, IMO. I don't know much of military operations, but it seems to me that what these men are doing is a thousand times more effective than anything any army batallion is capable of.
    Well it is very effective when they get in the right spot. It's just amazing these two men did this. When my old battalion went to Afghan in 2008 the STA platoon managed a total of about 70 or so killed. Which was impressive, but just these two men alone did it which is mind boggling.

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