Fidelity In Marriage

[Jesus The Inane]

I was wondering why is sexual fidelity so important in a relationship? I mean, its just sex, you know? Why do we give so much importance to it? It would appear to me that couples who are "swingers" tend to trust each other more, and hence have a stronger marriage. Doesn't fidelity seem to make relationships more complicated?

I mean, so what if my wife has sex with another guy, you know? Sex is just like a sport, its just for fun. My wife could have sex with a guy, and still love me because she would care about me more then the guy she was having sex with. Now one could argue that if you really love a person, why would you want to have sex with another person? And I can understand this, but why not experiment with different partners? Whats the big deal?

So what you all think?

[Quintus Valerius]

When you're married can I have your wife's phone number?

[Søren]

Moved

[LordSaradain]

I know I wouldn't want my wife screwing around with strangers, nor would I want to screw other women when I'm married. You can do all that when you're young and free.

[Darth Wong]

I was wondering why is sexual fidelity so important in a relationship?

In terms of evolutionary psychology, it makes perfect sense. You are compelled to ensure the propagation of your genetic material, and if your wife is unfaithful to you, then there is a strong possibility that her offspring will not be yours. That is why there have always been much harsher penalties for female adultery than for male adultery. Even the Bible makes a point of saying that a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night must be stoned to death, but there is no similar rule for a man.

I mean, its just sex, you know? Why do we give so much importance to it? It would appear to me that couples who are "swingers" tend to trust each other more, and hence have a stronger marriage.

Do you have any sources for the claim that swingers have stronger marriages? This strikes me as a very curious outcome if it is in fact true, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

Doesn't fidelity seem to make relationships more complicated?

Only if you want to cheat.

I mean, so what if my wife has sex with another guy, you know?

Are you married?

Sex is just like a sport, its just for fun.

This particular "sport" can cause impregnation and spread disease.

My wife could have sex with a guy, and still love me because she would care about me more then the guy she was having sex with.

That is theoretically possible, and I'm not going to condemn a swinger because it's really none of my business how they choose to run their relationship, but I would hope that this "arrangement" was agreed-upon by both parties before they married, and that their wedding vows reflected this. Otherwise, it's cheating. I made a vow to be faithful, and it's a pretty straightforward proposition.

Now one could argue that if you really love a person, why would you want to have sex with another person? And I can understand this, but why not experiment with different partners?

Why not experiment with different sex acts on the same partner? What's this other person going to give you that your wife can't?

[Denny Crane!]

It takes a different mindset for that sort of relationship. You are either the type that commits, the type that cheats or the type that swings. Or you have never had a truly long term relationship and are naive.

Personally I have a strong ethical code, I believe in fidelity and that belief is my own it doesn't stem from any religous text book. I have the lowest opinion of people who cheat on an unknowing partner as I think if they will do that to someone they have committed to what will they do to someone who they aren't committed to. Scum in other words, or people of such weak character they are not worth my time (Ie. the excuse they were forced into it by an uncaring partner).

But I guess if two people want to have an open relationship thats their perogative, I personally couldn't do it although I have engaged in an open ended sexual relationship where there are no ties we are basically just using each other until someone we want to commit to comes along, no strings sex is different if you don't care about the person as its not strictly a relationship of any sort.

Peter

[Quintus Valerius]

Listen to Darth Wong! He's a wise man.

[Justinian]

I was wondering why is sexual fidelity so important in a relationship? I mean, its just sex, you know? Why do we give so much importance to it?

I would think it's down to an issue of trust. Long term relationships are built not only on love but also on trust; if you are married to someone you don't trust, I think you'll divorce in no time.

It would appear to me that couples who are "swingers" tend to trust each other more, and hence have a stronger marriage.

That sounds quite impossible. Source?

Doesn't fidelity seem to make relationships more complicated?

More complicated? Maybe. More meaningful? Definitely.

I mean, so what if my wife has sex with another guy, you know? Sex is just like a sport, its just for fun. My wife could have sex with a guy, and still love me because she would care about me more then the guy she was having sex with. Now one could argue that if you really love a person, why would you want to have sex with another person? And I can understand this, but why not experiment with different partners? Whats the big deal?

Well, besides the small chances of getting STDs from your wife/husband because they're screwing around, and ignoring trust because I already commented on it, it's down to what you say when you marry. Most marriage vows include something along the lines of being faithful until death (or divorce, in the cases of an alarming number of people). So what really makes me angry is when someone swears that they will not do something and then does it. That, not just the sex, is what violates trust. There's a word for that: oathbreaker, and they used to be shunned.

And if two people decide "hey, I'm going to have sex with who I want and you can have sex with who you want", why the hell would they get married? Marriage signifies a commitment to stick to eachother, not to have sex with anyone who passes by.

[Rush Limbaugh]

Doesn't fidelity seem to make relationships more complicated?

Believe me the more women your involved with the more complicated your life becomes.

[Nihil]

I think you guys are misunderstanding Jesus, he's not saying that statistically if you swing you have a more trusting marriage; he's saying that to be secure enough to allow an open relationship implies to him that the relationship is a strong one.

For my own part, I agree with Mr The Inane.

Sure, there's pregnancy and diseases, but if we leave aside these unpleasant realities for a moment, and speak in hypotheticals, there is in fact no implicit logical reason why people have to be monogomous.

What about the spiritual and emotional bond between partners? Isn't that more important than sex? The mere fact that you may love somebody doesn't stop you from wanting to violate every attractive woman you see. Anybody who says so is lying, surely?

Men are programmed to impregnate as many women as they possibly can. It's the female who benefits from monogamy. Not that I'm suggesting that siring illegitimate brats all over town is a wise course of action, mind you...

I think we can all agree, however, that to cheat on somebody in a duplicitous manner is pretty bad form.

[Darth Wong]

I think you guys are misunderstanding Jesus, he's not saying that statistically if you swing you have a more trusting marriage; he's saying that to be secure enough to allow an open relationship implies to him that the relationship is a strong one.

I don't see how that follows at all. I would argue with conviction that someone in a strong relationship would not want to have sex with anyone other than his wife, so the question of whether she is willing to let him sleep around becomes irrelevant.

Sure, there's pregnancy and diseases, but if we leave aside these unpleasant realities for a moment, and speak in hypotheticals, there is in fact no implicit logical reason why people have to be monogomous.

There is no logical reason why people have to marry either. There is only so much time and energy that one has in his life. Some of it goes to yourself. Some of it goes to your work. Some of it goes to your kids. And some of it goes to your wife. If you dilute yourself further, you are denying some of your time, energy, and love to your wife in order to spend it with some other person. How on Earth is that supposed to be evidence of a strong relationship?

What about the spiritual and emotional bond between partners? Isn't that more important than sex?

Pretty hard to be spiritually and emotionally bonding with your wife when she's sitting at home and you're in some other woman's bedroom, isn't it?

[Hub'ite]

Some people(me) only have sex with people that they love. To me, having sex is an expression(and a lot of fun ) of my love for her. She is the only girl I would ever want to have sex with.

[Jesus The Inane]

Amazing, Nihil, you read me like a book.

That is what I was trying to express. We can love a person, but that doesn't mean we are not compel to have sex with a hot female we don't even know. And so what if I have sex with a hot female even though I have a wife? I would still care a whole lot more for my wife then for the hot girl who I just wanted to have sex with.

Do you have any sources for the claim that swingers have stronger marriages? This strikes me as a very curious outcome if it is in fact true, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

Notice how I said; "It would appear to me." And not; "Swingers have stronger relationships."

Why not experiment with different sex acts on the same partner? What's this other person going to give you that your wife can't?

Because sometimes a man wants to screw a hot girl who he doesn't even know...

And if two people decide "hey, I'm going to have sex with who I want and you can have sex with who you want", why the hell would they get married? Marriage signifies a commitment to stick to eachother, not to have sex with anyone who passes by.

Why would they get married? Lets see; because they love each other, because they want to have a family, because they want the financial help, because they want a relationship that is more then lust... Marriage signifies a commitment to stick to eachother financially, emotionally, and not just to promise you won't have sex with other person except your wife/husband.

I think you guys are misunderstanding Jesus, he's not saying that statistically if you swing you have a more trusting marriage; he's saying that to be secure enough to allow an open relationship implies to him that the relationship is a strong one.

Yes, if I can actually allow my wife to sleep with another guy then surely I would need to trust my wife enough to let her do that, you know? I mean, that is true trust. And I think allowing her to sleep with other guys could help the relationship rise above just her looks, and what she can offer me in bed.

There is no logical reason why people have to marry either. There is only so much time and energy that one has in his life. Some of it goes to yourself. Some of it goes to your work. Some of it goes to your kids. And some of it goes to your wife. If you dilute yourself further, you are denying some of your time, energy, and love to your wife in order to spend it with some other person. How on Earth is that supposed to be evidence of a strong relationship?

Yes there is; people don't want to be alone, and marriage supposedly takes away the loneliness. Anyway, you say that there is a certain amount of time one spends on one self, and the act of having sex with another female that is not your wife would fall into this percentage. There would be no difference between the husband spending time with his buddies playing tennis, or the husband spending time having sex with a friend.

[Darth Wong]

There would be no difference between the husband spending time with his buddies playing tennis, or the husband spending time having sex with a friend.

There would be a difference from his wife's perspective, since no one has denied that women have a natural evolutionary impulse to desire monogamy from their mates. So you are doing something that hurts your wife because you feel like it. Where I come from, that does not signify a strong relationship.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Hm. Ive done my share of cheating in past relationships and have found that it does nothing but cause massive (and generally unresovable) problems. Even just having sexual relationships with multiple females at the same time can cause large problems if one or more of them find out about it. Im not quite sure how one can think that fidelity would cause a relationship to be MORE complicated, as from personal experience, I have found the exact opposite to be true (Rush is correct, IMO).

The more people youre juggling your time with, the more complicated things will become, ESPECIALLY if its causing you to spend less time with your spouse, pay less attention to her, whatever. I wouldnt put going out with friends, etc, in the same category as basically having another relationship on the side.

Meh...Ive lost my train of thought.

[Nihil]

There would be a difference from his wife's perspective, since no one has denied that women have a natural evolutionary impulse to desire monogamy from their mates. So you are doing something that hurts your wife because you feel like it. Where I come from, that does not signify a strong relationship.

So, by the same rationale, fidelity is hurtful to men, since it goes against their evolutionary impulses? And therefore women are doing something that hurts men, just because they feel like it? How cruel.

Tell you what, JTI: you try to implement your wonderful little theory and let us know how it turns out.

Was there any real need to be snide? Can't you discuss things civilly? Sheesh...



edited due to anomoly with the quoting function...

[Darth Wong]

So, by the same rationale, fidelity is hurtful to men, since it goes against their evolutionary impulses?

Arguably yes, which is a perfectly reasonable burden for the man to bear in exchange for the woman bearing his children: a painful and life-altering experience.

And therefore women are doing something that hurts men, just because they feel like it?

However, the woman has a rational justification for it, rather than doing it for personal pleasure. The man does not.

Was there any real need to be snide? Can't you discuss things civilly? Sheesh...

What's so snide about pointing out that he's spewing theories which won't work in application?

Gays now seek to change the definition of marraige to legitimatize their "lifestyle"

Interesting that you have to raise this total red-herring. It's also interesting that you phrase your argument against gay marriage in this way; it implies directly that your opposition to gay marriage is about condemning and attacking the gay "lifestyle" rather than any intrinsic requirement of marriage. After all, a gay couple which remains faithful for life and adopts a child would meet the requirements you laid out.

[the_mango55]

Yes, if I can actually allow my wife to sleep with another guy then surely I would need to trust my wife enough to let her do that, you know? I mean, that is true trust. And I think allowing her to sleep with other guys could help the relationship rise above just her looks, and what she can offer me in bed.

What the...

If you know your wife is going to sleep with other people anyway, why do you need to trust her?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Sex without love is simply mastrubating with a body instead of your hand.

[Darth Wong]

Tell you what, JTI: you try to implement your wonderful little theory and let us know how it turns out.