Standing up against Lancers

[Nacht]

Is there any non-cavalry unit (basically no camels/horses/elephants) than can defeat a Lancer in a one on one without suffering over 85% casualties? Obudshaers (awesome guys) can kill them all off, but they usually lose around 130-140 men. Janissary Heavy Infantry has great attack stats, but their armor is pathetic, and they get wiped out instantly. The elite pikes can usually deal around 30-40% casualties but die out overtime.

So yeah. Only Obudshaers seem to be able to defeat Lancers.

EDIT - Only units from playable factions please, without mods and anything like that.

[Polycarpe]

Is there any non-cavalry unit (basically no camels/horses/elephants) than can defeat a Lancer in a one on one without suffering over 85% casualties? Obudshaers (awesome guys) can kill them all off, but they usually lose around 130-140 men. Janissary Heavy Infantry has great attack stats, but their armor is pathetic, and they get wiped out instantly. The elite pikes can usually deal around 30-40% casualties but die out overtime.

So yeah. Only Obudshaers seem to be able to defeat Lancers.

Try swiss armored halberdier, you're gonna win really easily.

[k/t]

Seems historically realistic. I can't wait to play France once the new RR/RC comes out.

[Kawee]

Historically speaking, I don't think anyone actually stood up against the Lancers all on their own. You should not look to do so. Combined arms are the way to go. Pikes are the best at stopping them, then use either firearms or AP polearms to cut them down.

[Rahvin]

Historically speaking, I don't think anyone actually stood up against the Lancers all on their own. You should not look to do so. Combined arms are the way to go. Pikes are the best at stopping them, then use either firearms or AP polearms to cut them down.

I have to agree with that in the cheapest way possible. Any low quality spearmen or preferably pikemen (anything that lasts more than the initial charge) backed up by javelins. Javelins can solve just about any problem in the game, other than the horde that is. Then again I love putting stacks of low quality units into the grinder, you might prefer soldiers with value.

Quantity has a quality all it's own. -Josef Stalin

[guyverlance]

pikemen interspersed with halberds. stops, and kills Lancers

[merocaine]

Foul there charge and send the Halbardiers, Lancers take 7 turns to build and cost lots of dosh, so you'll never run up against to many of them.

[Ferdiad]

Foul there charge and send the Halbardiers, Lancers take 7 turns to build and cost lots of dosh, so you'll never run up against to many of them.

You've obviously never played a long game have you I have seen Lancer soam many times if France Survives, it is...terrifying.

[Gogolometro]

Ferdiad, ideea is any pike unit cost many times less and their pools are much bigger. You can buy a pike, a gunner and a halebard unit at cost of 1 lancer. And never are enough lancers.
My example is simple, Constantinople is a huge barracks city, I just build like mad scolari, scutati, varangoi and siphonatores. Sometime I repair the units. But are never, never enough troops like this to use them on front. Still the backbone profesional and locals make the army.
One thing more, only a foul never choose wisely the battlefield. Army composition, general traits are nothing if you are downhill, no place to use terrain.
An I have many campaigns with Aragon before 6.4 to know the power of french army. Always I will choose to fight with spaniars, moors and genova, than with french. But ideea behind the topic is virtual imposible to answer, who can kill a superheavy cavalry unit, with big stats, with bonuses and specialisation breake enemy pikes, with a infantry based unit. I have in mind a scout charge against a spearman unit, and the results. The lancers have 4-5 times better stats. Case closed.

P.S. If you ask cavalry versus cavalry, I can start to test and express my conclusions.

[BarSteward]

I find that Dismounted Kings men is it? the ones with the big 2 handed hammer are extremely good vs cavalry but are weak in receiving a charge, so some kind of militia to absorb the charge and then send in the kings men or equivalent unit. but pike men are best for taking a cav charge but are often quite poor afterward

but 1 on 1 almost nothing can handle a Lancer unit. maybe a good archer unit that can deploy stakes but that would only work if they rode into the stakes

[Ferdiad]

I find that Dismounted Kings men is it? the ones with the big 2 handed hammer are extremely good vs cavalry but are weak in receiving a charge, so some kind of militia to absorb the charge and then send in the kings men or equivalent unit. but pike men are best for taking a cav charge but are often quite poor afterward

but 1 on 1 almost nothing can handle a Lancer unit. maybe a good archer unit that can deploy stakes but that would only work if they rode into the stakes

Scholarii can beat Lancers if they avoid the charge, its cause of the AP maces.

[BarSteward]

Scholarii can beat Lancers if they avoid the charge, its cause of the AP maces.

oh yeah i know, but Nacht wanted to know any non-cav units that could stand toe to toe with Lancers.

[Ferdiad]

oh yeah i know, but Nacht wanted to know any non-cav units that could stand toe to toe with Lancers.

1v1?None, thats the whole point of them.

[Nacht]

1v1?None, thats the whole point of them.

Obudshaer can stand up against their charge. But they lose around 135-145.

[King-Morgoth]

Siphonatres, (Roman flamethrower guys) if they can get their shots off before the lancers hit then its basically already over.

[Ferdiad]

Thats not good, I define standing up as loosing only a few men.

[Mihajlo]

Any ap high quality troops should do it, if you avoid full charge.

[k/t]

Not even Scholarii will lose only a few men, so nothing can stand up to them by that definition.

[Théoric HämmerHörde]

Pike/halberds to stop them, and AP weapons to kill them. Dismounted Kings Men can't take charges worth crap, but if they attack already engage cavalry, they kick ass.

[Mihajlo]

Well question was can anyone beat them 1 on 1. answer is yes. If you think if some unit can crush them with few units, answer is no, it is already ridicules that scholarii can even beat them, so having one unit that can rape them on field is outrages...