Ptolemaic Phalangites

[smoesville]

I always thought they would be easy, i mean the Ptolemies practically gave egypt to rome, that of course was then this is 200 years earlier and the greeks still rule here.

Has anyone got a good tactic that doesn't involve pinning them? I mean it sounds good, pin them in place and then flank them, of course the pinning unit will get butchered and if they're the agema they won't break but will continue to kill everyone.

[Ferdiad]

There troops are the worst of the Diadochi so elite troops like agrypsides will beat them 1 on 1.

[Entropy Judge]

The Klerouchon Agema? They're statistically identical to Argyraspides, so whatever you did against them should work. The Chaonion Agema is similar, but has +1 Armor and doesn't have the Hardy trait ... similar tactics should work. Faction? I mean, Pin-and-Flank/Hammer-and-Anvil does work, although I've eaten Chaonions by using two P Principes and one Pedites Extraordinarii, although that doesn't work if you're not Roman

Get some kind of very high Defense unit (other elite Pikes, Triarii, Spartiatai) to hold them in front, then get good AP units behind them - cavalry if they aren't otherwise engaged, or Bastarnae or Thraikioi Peltastai/Rhomphaiaphoroi, because AP + High Attack + High Lethality turns them into Pike-killing monstrosities.

Spam High-XP Slingers or Artillery?

Really, there's no "good" way to deal with elite phalangites, and you're going to eat casualties no matter what you do. Phalangites kill things in front of them, and Elite ones are very good at it.

[kostas84]

Which faction are you? I was always good at controlling and beating Phalanx units.

[smoesville]

I'm Rome, funnily enough i've never had to face good pikes before as rome as none of the eastern powers fought me, AE never even had a chance to and pontus fielded pikes in a singular fashion (one unit along with a whole mixture of mostly low grade levies) whereas the ptolemies use 5-8 pike so it's actually a good army and a threat. Another factor in my dislike of them is the fact i'm fighting where anatolia meets the rest of asia and in the nile valley so it's very difficult to supply fresh troops to the area.

[Entropy Judge]

Galatian Heavy Spearmen from Ankyra (and Pontic Cappadocia, it seems), Classical Hoplites from a bit east, Peltasts from around the area, Cappadocia seems to have some decent cavalry, your Thracian territories are good for Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi, and the eastern one for more Galatians. Anatolian Hillmen are, IIRC, AP and therefore expendable units you can use to back up your Thracians.

Granted, that doesn't help your Egyptian territories, but if you can't send enough Roman units to help hold them (really, the Galatians and Thracians should be more than enough, with some locals around, to hold the Ptolemies off unless they start flinging multiple stacks of doom at you, in which case not even Roman reinforcements would help), I'd suggest burning everything that's not a wonder-type building and writing Egypt off until you can remove the Ptolemies from Syria, as that's a major unit-production center for them.

[smoesville]

Yes, would three full banners in one year count as 'stacks of doom'? That was just south of mazaka and i only held because i had a full legion sitting on that bridge. Not so full anymore, also invaded cilicia and did i mention the repeated incursions in the west by carthage? I'm tempted to pull out and see how powerful carthage get and how the two fight each other.

[torongill]

I've been fighting AS phalanxes for the last hundred years(231 - 133 BC and counting) and I have used almost all possible approaches to dealing with them. Pin and flank and charge in the rear is the only method that works consistently. Have a unit with good armor, good defence and shields to pin them from the front, like Pedites Extraordinarii, Galatian heavy spearmen, classical hoplites, polybian principes, samnite heavy infantry, neitos, merc phalangitai, merc naked fanatics. Then outflank them and charge+move in their rear with Thracian peltastas or elite thracian infantry. Charge and when they're in contact order them to move further inside the enemy formation and then order them to attack. This will prevent pike scythe and at the same time has the maximum of your men in contact with the enemy. I think that's schock tactics, but won't swear my life on it. Bottomline, it works like a charm. If you don't have enough units, then execute a Theban Leuctra formation - A strong left with the rest of the line like a ladder. You pin and attack each unit and have a cavalry nearby to kill off the routing phalanx. I always flaunt this, but with good reason - it works.

One explanation - the two units of classical hoplites in those screenshots that suffored most did so because of three units of AS heavy cavalry(the greek heavies with the big shields). Turns out shieldwall is not good for repelling heavy cavalry charges. And yes, I used shieldwall formations for my heavy infantry. I'm not sure I would do that today - units in shieldwall formation can enter contact with a phalanx, but they will suffer. It's easier on them to just pin the phalanx in a normal square and charge into the rear. But when the phalanx is fighting a shieldwalled enemy, it can't do the pike turn(At the time I hadn't discovered the charge+move+attack combination).

[wiande]

THe PTO and AS are pretty the same regardless to the use of Phalanx