Abbasid Strategy

[Robert Guiscard]

First of all, great mod
I'm playing as the Abbasids and I was wondering what strategy to use in case of the Great Seljuqs decide to attack. My empire spans the Euphrates and Tigris and includes Aleppo and Edessa along with some Georgian territory. We share some allies (the Turkish Sultanate and Kypchaks) so they won't attack right away but I know they are eying my rich territories. How should my overall strategy look and what battle tactics should I use against their heavy horse archer army? thanks

[trollface]

the most efficient army is a cavalry one... preferably horse archers as I hate micro managing lancers. They will probably not attack until you declare war

[rummtata]

I've been playing Abbasids as well lately, your overall strategy should be to avoid conflicts on every corner of your empire at the same time, which is not unlikely since your geographic position pretty much puts you into the middle of everything. For maximum control about whom to fight and when, try to maintain an "Immaculate" reputation.

When I attacked the Seljuks, around 1210, they had expanded to the northwest into Kypchak territory, they were holding Majar and most of Georgia. The steppes people didn't take that too well, so there was a major conflict ongoing when I decided it was the right time to attack My allies: Turks and Ghorids, later the Kypchaks, too.

I used cavalry stacks for offensive in the field (50/50 lancers/archers) and spearmen-archer infantry stack supported by at least two lancers beside the general (Askari Nobles, in the best case) and 4-6 horse archers.

The Seljuks were busy with the Kypchaks so their resistance was low compared to their overall strength, I could pretty much walk in through the back door. The stacks they threw at me mainly consisted of elite archers, seljuk noble infantry and some cavalry (Askari and HAs).

The Abbasids greatest weakness is their lack in capable foot archers, those bedouins and nubians suck, especially when facing the Seljuk's vast numbers of elite archers. I also missed heavy spearmen, you can recruit only very few Abna Spearmen until late game, if you hold Georgian territory, make use of those black jihad spearmen/swordsmen, they hold their ground against most opposition.

In siege battles, you can use your heavy attack infantry to your advantage (Dismounted Caliph's Guard, Faris Heavy Infantry); until your cities are developed properly, however, you'll have to rely on those light swordsmen and such - make numbers count and use your general's bodyguard as much as possible.

[shikaka]

The Seljuks are big and have lots of troops in the beginning, so they can conquer rebels fast.

But, I have a feeling (cannot prove it) that the 'biggest threat' is treated as the biggest threat by all nations, so Seljuks usually don't have many allies, but have lots of neighbours.
When one of the neighbours gets in a war with Seljuks, most other neighbours join in too.

In most of my game there is a Seljuk giant until I decide to attack, and then they are swiftly gangbanged from all sides and are reduced to a medium power. (and the new attackers are often not my allies at all, they just go for a rich guy in war)

[Inwalda]

I recently finished my long Abbasid Caliphate game. What I did was rush the Seljuks at the start. In your situation, just mass armies near their borders and when the opportunity arises blitz about 6 or so of their territories in a couple of turns. Never sack or exterminate because it will harm your reputation. After your armies have been worn out or you have lost the military advantage sue for peace. You may have to give them back a city or castle though i never had to. After that rebuild your armies and attack once more. Took me 2 blitzes to push them all the way to the Khwarezmian Shah

[Ansar Warrior]

I recently finished my long Abbasid Caliphate game. What I did was rush the Seljuks at the start. In your situation, just mass armies near their borders and when the opportunity arises blitz about 6 or so of their territories in a couple of turns. Never sack or exterminate because it will harm your reputation. After your armies have been worn out or you have lost the military advantage sue for peace. You may have to give them back a city or castle though i never had to. After that rebuild your armies and attack once more. Took me 2 blitzes to push them all the way to the Khwarezmian Shah

This.

[Ansar Warrior]

First of all, great mod
I'm playing as the Abbasids and I was wondering what strategy to use in case of the Great Seljuqs decide to attack. My empire spans the Euphrates and Tigris and includes Aleppo and Edessa along with some Georgian territory. We share some allies (the Turkish Sultanate and Kypchaks) so they won't attack right away but I know they are eying my rich territories. How should my overall strategy look and what battle tactics should I use against their heavy horse archer army? thanks

I can only tell you what I did as the Abbasids, because I used them in BC I got attacked by the Seljuks quite early and that hindered me badly so in BC.2 the first thing I did was wipe out the Seljuks asap, once you have their lands plus the Abbasids original lands you become a power in the region straight away.

[jermagon]

well, the Abbasid was the 1st faction I ever played, it's a very interesting faction, and IMO it's the equivalent of the Catholic papacy, since Baghdad was the seat of the Caliphate for 525 years so how to end the Abbasid campaign victorious?
to answer your question first of all you need to check the map, the Seljuks are your western neighbor and they are your ultimate enemy,so make sure not to provoke them, while the Ayyubid are your eastern neighbor and historically the Ayyubid were very loyal to the caliphate,so making an Alliance with them will be the first step to secure your western borders

regarding the economy you control Baghdad the most prosperous city in the Muslim world, try to improve the infrastructure of the city and money will rain from the sky upon you, also try to secure northern Iraq, capture Kirkuk and Samara from the Seljuks but don't attack Muslim, it's well defended and there's a huge army guarding it, also capture Ahwaz and Hilla and Anbar, all these cities have small garrisons so they are very easy to be taken.

once you capture all these cities, you will be able to march to Northern Syria, try to pave the way to Aleppo (the Grand prize) by capturing cities like Mardin and Dyarbakr and Edessa, right now you are the 1st Caliph to set a foot in Syria since the 9th century.
in the same time never always be ready to wage a war against the Seljuk they will attack your empire sooner or later,so recruit more Soldiers in Iraq, and also you can send a military expedition to the rebel city of Shiraz on ships from Basra,thus you will extend your realm further to the west.

[rummtata]

I very much agree with your post, jermagon, but how come you've mixed up all the directions? The Seljuks are to the north, the Ayyubids are to the west and Shiraz is to the east, not the other way around... ^^

[Robert Guiscard]

In terms of alliances, who should I ally with other than the Ayyubids? It seems that all the Muslim factions, including the Seljuks, have approached me with alliances

[Iguanaonastick]

Try to ally with factions that are not likely to go to war with one another. If they do, you'll be forced to choose an alliance to break and your reputation will drop.

As Abassids, I'd try to ally with the Omani and keep decent relation in hope they won't try to backstab. Ghazni or the Khwarezm and the Georgians also seem solid choices as they all neighbour or will end up neighbouring the Seljuks. They're a bit too far away to be truly helpful but you might just be able to make them join a war against the Seljuks.

[rummtata]

Try to ally with factions that are not likely to go to war with one another.

True, that's why Turks+Ghorids has proven to be an excellent choice, but Ayyubids + Ghazni works fine as well. I would advise against an alliance with the Omani though, they seem to be intended as a rival faction (relations periodically drop for no apparent reason) and they hold provinces you'd want to conquer for the income bonus from maritime trade.

Also, it's best to only choose permanent allies who share your religion, otherwise the muslim factions might be inclined to dislike you and you will constantly have to counter your allies conversion efforts...

P.S.: Here is my game map in 1221, I'm still finishing off the Seljuks while my allies (Turks, Ghorids, Kypchaks) have forged decent empires of their own. The mongols are wreaking havoc in the north but haven't settled yet. I wonder if they will come straight at me? oO

[Ansar Warrior]

^ This all sounds like too many alliances, who can you conquer if you have so many friends? When I was the Abbasids I first destroyed the Seljuks because sooner or later their going to come knocking and if unchecked they get to be a super power very quickly and Abbasid lands are directly in their way.

My actions were conquer the Seljuks and eliminate that direct threat whilst inheriting their strength and ecomomy, conquered Oman an easy target and fellow Arab nation, Ally with the Ayyubids and any other nation outside of your area, watch for the northern kingdoms like the Gerogians they attacked me after a while.

I actually like when I have to choose between allies at war because you can shape your alliance and choose the most opportune ally against lets say someone you have your eye on conquering.

[Iguanaonastick]

It damages your reputation, though. So it's best to just not ally in the first place with someone you want to fight someday.

I find it's beneficial to have a lot of friends and few enemies. It lets you concentrate your force in one direction. Particularly for a faction like the Ayyubids who are in the middle of the map this is important, lest you find yourself in a two or even three-front war.

In my scenario of alliances you could still expand west and conquer the Armenians, Turks and Romans and create a big empire that way. Or expand north-east and conquer the Seljuks, whichever of the Khwarezm/Ghazni you did not ally with and then the mongols... okay, only if you can start a jihad against them. Or you could just keep heading east for India. Plenty of options.

I suppose it would make sense to conquer Oman, I just generally tend not to attack smaller factions. Or attack any factions at all unless they're at war with my allies. It's a bit too easy to blitz the AI through surprise attacks otherwise, I find. But strategy-wise it makes sense to extent your power-base south-east.