Milan...Hungary

[BarSteward]

Not really about Milan but when i played vanilla i hated the despicable back stabbing Milanese scum! they would offer you an alliance trade rights and map info and then declare war the very next turn.

Is it just me but have the Hungarians taken over the old Milanese mantel of being evil dishonorable heathens? they just seam to attack everyone!

[Ferdiad]

Not really about Milan but when i played vanilla i hated the despicable back stabbing Milanese scum! they would offer you an alliance trade rights and map info and then declare war the very next turn.

Is it just me but have the Hungarians taken over the old Milanese mantel of being evil dishonorable heathens? they just seam to attack everyone!

Fail.

[mynameisowen]

Fail.

?

[CobraStallone]

Not really about Milan but when i played vanilla i hated the despicable back stabbing Milanese scum! they would offer you an alliance trade rights and map info and then declare war the very next turn.

Is it just me but have the Hungarians taken over the old Milanese mantel of being evil dishonorable heathens? they just seam to attack everyone!

I don't thinks so, how often a AI faction betrays you depends on a lot of things, whether they can expand elsewhere, how good your relations are, you having certain territories that they traditionally try to conquer, etc...

[BarSteward]

I don't thinks so, how often a AI faction betrays you depends on a lot of things, whether they can expand elsewhere, how good your relations are, you having certain territories that they traditionally try to conquer, etc...

well what ever faction i play as they attack me and general anyone they have a border with. guess its just me

[Lowell43]

The OP is correct. The Milanese were/are backstabbing scum. On the other hand, I have managed to keep the Hungarians at least neutral, if not allied, when playing as the HRE, Venice, and Romans.

[Angrychris]

if it wasnt genoea then it was venice who constanly back stabbed on the italian penninsula

[Sokar Rostau]

I guess it's been a long time since some of you played vanilla because Milan is a notorious backstabber... One of the reasons people play mods like SS instead of vanilla M2TW in the first place.

[Ichon]

I guess it's been a long time since some of you played vanilla because Milan is a notorious backstabber... One of the reasons people play mods like SS instead of vanilla M2TW in the first place.

LOL really? Because Milan was a backstabber? Well if its true quite funny that drove people to mods. Genoa has that reputation now. Venice more often than not seems to ally with Pope and then either kills HRE or is betrayed by Pope and Hungarian alliance.

[Sokar Rostau]

Predictable and annoying AI like that is just one of many, many, reasons people play mods. I don't know about SS6.4, since I'm playing Genoa, but I never had that issue with any particular faction in 6.1 or 6.2.

[Ichon]

I remember threads about Genoa in 6.1 but it didn't seem as universal as those about Milan in vanilla. I think there was a poll done where Genoa topped the most hated faction for Catholics sometime around 6.3(well not including the Pope).

[BarSteward]

haha yeah i have problems with Genoa as well, in fact it does seam to be an Italian thing.

the start of the campaign reminds me of Rome to some degree, 3 main playable factions (Milan/Genoa, Venice and Sicily) with one almost all powerful body binding them together (pope or SPQR)

but yes maybe i just need to pay the Hungarians a bit of money now and then... i wish there was some way to semi-permanently improve your relations with a faction.

[Sokar Rostau]

Marriage alliance.

[ribelli]

genoa/milan has a position that i think kind of encourages backstabbing. you have hre in the north, venice to the east, the papacy to the south, sicily to the far south and france to the west. once you have florence/pisa, milan, genoa, ajaccio and maybe corsica if you got there first, marseille. there isn't a whole lot of immediate options for expansion without bumping heads with a neighbor.

while the other two italian states are kind of lucky. venice and sicily can swoop down into byzantium and sicily also is right next to tunis and that one city...al-something-something in north africa.

hungary also has a similarly interesting position with, hre to the west, poland to the north, venice to the south west, kiev to the east, (depending on ss version) cumans also to the east, and byzantines to the south. it's position is why i rarely play hungary even though i really want too...

meh my early day 2cents.

[Ferdiad]

It's because Genoaese hate me, they always backstab France and become a yelow France.

[-Myth-]

No, that's because early Era France has crap for units.

[Ferdiad]

No, that's because early Era France has crap for units.

Not crap. just the same as everyone else, no unique units for a few hundred years.