Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 79

Thread: Militarizing the country... But what for?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    11,169

    Default Militarizing the country... But what for?

    Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has told a huge rally of supporters that he wants to buy more weapons to defend his country from invasion.

    Speaking in the capital Caracas, Mr Chavez said 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles already on order from Russia were not enough.

    Venezuela needed a million well-armed men and women, he said.

    Mr Chavez also likened US President George W Bush to the German Nazi leader, Adolf Hitler.

    Diplomatic relations between Venezuela and the US have been strained, but they worsened earlier this week when both countries expelled one another's diplomats after Caracas accused the US embassy of spying.

    The Venezuelan government has repeatedly accused Washington of trying to destabilise President Chavez - an allegation rejected by US officials.

    'Defend our fatherland'

    The BBC's Greg Morsbach in Caracas says the rally - to celebrate a failed coup led by Mr Chavez in 1992 - got off to a militaristic start, with a bugler heralding the arrival of President Chavez at the podium.

    Wearing his trademark red army beret, Mr Chavez said Washington was considering invading Venezuela.

    "I ask for permission ... to buy another cargo of arms because the gringos want us unarmed. We have to defend our fatherland," he said.

    "Venezuela needs to have one million well-equipped and well-armed men and women."

    Last year the US tried to block the sale of 12 Spanish military planes to Venezuela that were made with US technology.

    But Madrid recently said it would go ahead with the sale using more expensive European parts.

    'Inflammatory rhetoric'

    Turning to oil, the president said if the Bush administration wished to cut diplomatic ties to Venezuela, he would have no second thoughts about closing all the Venezuelan refineries in the US.

    "Let's see what'll happen to the price of crude oil then", Mr Chavez told his audience.

    He said the US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had been wrong last week to compare the Venezuelan president with Adolf Hitler:

    "The imperialist, genocidal, fascist attitude of the US president has no limits. I think Hitler would be like a suckling baby next to George W Bush."

    Washington is deeply opposed to the government of left-wing Mr Chavez, who is a vocal critic of the US.

    The US has expressed concerns about Venezuelan democracy under Mr Chavez and about the effect of his government's military purchases on regional stability.

    But the US has not said it will break off relations with Venezuela, and correspondents say Washington has dismissed threats by Mr Chavez as inflammatory rhetoric aimed at his core supporters.
    Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4682488.stm

    I just can't seem to understand the logic in his dealings. Chavez is planning to militarize the entire population. This can only be a bad thing for the future of Venezuela. Take note that Venezuela's population is of about 25 million people. Now add one million assault rifles and give them to the extremist Chavez supporters in order to "defend" themselves from imperialist America. And what do you get? Chaos. You just wait until those extremists are no longer satisfied by Chavez. The only people that those rifles will kill are fellow Venezuelans. The United States doesn't have the popular will nor the manpower necessary to invade any country, any less Venezuela. Civil war... that's all I see for the country. Years and maybe decades of it. It's gonna resemble Rwanda in thirty years. Truth be told, I don't even care anymore. I resigned my nation to the fiends long ago, but this is a stern and objective prophecy. Keep this archived, for in thirty years, you'll be astounded to find that I'm pretty close to the truth.
    Last edited by Siblesz; February 05, 2006 at 08:35 PM.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel." -Saudi Saying
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  2. #2

    Default

    BOY I SURE DIDNT SEE THIS ONE COMING

    wonder how long the dictator apoligists can keep propping up this hitler wannabee as the great defender of downtrodden people agains the evil american empire that wants to enslave the world?

  3. #3

    Default

    While I do not think it is a good move for the country, I think he really fears the americans. I do personally think that americans could eventually take armed actions, but right now, they have enough on their hands with middle-east...

    It's gonna resemble Rwanda in thirty years.
    Huh? Man... do you know anything about Rwanda's genocide? Both situation have absolutely nothing in common...

    wonder how long the dictator apoligists can keep propping this hitler wannabee as the great defender of downtrodden people agains the evil american empire
    What's so evil about his move? I mean, why would the USA invading countries would be ok, but Venezuela getting weapons to defend itself would be evil? I can't say I support the move he did, but I don't see anything wrong with it...

    Oh, and before calling Chavez a dictator, back up your statements please. He has no opposition because the opposition did a really stupid move, not Chavez's fault.

  4. #4
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    11,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    While I do not think it is a good move for the country, I think he really fears the americans. I do personally think that americans could eventually take armed actions, but right now, they have enough on their hands with middle-east...
    Chavez is very popular both internationally and in the United States. If the U.S. dares raise a finger against him, there's gonna be a heavy backlash... at least currently...

    Huh? Man... do you know anything about Rwanda's genocide? Venezuela has nothing to be linked with Rwanda... at all...
    Don't be a smart aleck. I know all about Rwanda's ethnic genocide. I don't mean that it's going to resemble Venezuela in that manner. What I mean is the fact that it's going to be a war zone in thirty years, not that there's going to be any ethnic cleansing occuring.
    Last edited by Siblesz; February 05, 2006 at 08:48 PM.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel." -Saudi Saying
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Siblesz
    Don't be a smart aleck. I know all about Rwanda's ethnic genocide. I don't mean that it's going to resemble Venezuela in that manner. What I mean is the fact that it's going to be a war zone in thirty years, not that there's going to be any ethnic cleansing occuring.
    The comparison totally blowed... It's just like saying: "Hey Venezuela will be just like the nazi concentration camp... I mean there will be deads and all, no?". It just seems like you tried to demonise the conflict or something. That didn't fly really high.

  6. #6
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    11,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    The comparison totally blowed... It's just like saying: "Hey Venezuela will be just like the nazi concentration camp... I mean there will be deads and all, no?". It just seems like you tried to demonise the conflict or something. That didn't fly really high.
    Don't beat a dead horse. It's going to resemble a warring country, OK? ANY warring country. You take a pick. Somalia? Iraq? Congo? Sudan? Chechnya? Kashmir (I know it's a region)? Colombia? You pick! Yes, you!
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel." -Saudi Saying
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  7. #7

    Default

    North Korea has a million man army and a similiar population.
    That's effectively what's bankrupting them.
    Unless he plans to give his armed forces no semblance of training, he will bankrupt Venezuela keeping a million man army together.





  8. #8
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    11,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat
    North Korea has a million man army and a similiar population.
    That's effectively what's bankrupting them.
    Unless he plans to give his armed forces no semblance of training, he will bankrupt Venezuela keeping a million man army together.
    He's planning to give them a "Marxist people's training", which means that the population will be poorly trained yet highly aroused and motivated for this so-called upcoming "invasion". If Chavez manages to set himself solidly as President for life, then it may work as a police state, but once Chavez is gone, he's going to leave a nation of extremists who'll be armed to the teeth and ready for blood to be shed. Just look to countries like Somalia and Iraq for reference. The same situation is being fermented, democratically or not.
    Last edited by Siblesz; February 05, 2006 at 08:50 PM.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel." -Saudi Saying
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Siblesz
    He's planning to give them a "Marxist people's training", which means that the population will be poorly trained yet highly aroused and motivated for this so-called upcoming "invasion". If Chavez manages to set himself solidly as President for life, then it may work as a police state, but once Chavez is gone, he's going to leave a nation of extremists who'll be armed to the teeth and ready for blood to be shed. Just look to countries like Somalia and Iraq for reference. The same situation is being fermented, democratically or not.
    Again, you cannot give an example of this since all cases are independant. I mean, the same situation happens in the USA (I chose it as it's the best example, but it's not just them, but every country to some extent), except that the institutions are very solid. EVEN if Chavez becomes a dictator, if he places solid institutions, there will probably be nothing more than some people (more likely the USA) trying to take advantage of the situation. Or there may be a huge civil war too. Just don't try to plan things 30 years in advance man, every scenario is possible. You are planning something based on something that you plan will happen, based on something that has no yet happened. And yet you use it as an argument.

  10. #10
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    11,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    Again, you cannot give an example of this since all cases are independant. I mean, the same situation happens in the USA, except that the institutions are very solid. EVEN if Chavez becomes a dictator, if he places solid institutions, there will probably be nothing more than some people (more likely the USA) trying to take advantage of the situation. Or there may be a huge civil war too. Just don't try to plan things 30 years in advance man, every scenario is possible. You are planning something based on something that you plan will happen, based on something that has no yet happened. And yet you use it as an argument.
    I'm not using it as an argument. I'm just saying that it's highly possible that it could happen in the future and that it shows the intentions of a man who many on this forum call a revolutionary hero. Whether those intentions be genuinely good or genuinely bad is up to you to decide, but it's pretty obvious that they are genuinely stupid.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel." -Saudi Saying
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat
    North Korea has a million man army and a similiar population.
    That's effectively what's bankrupting them.
    Unless he plans to give his armed forces no semblance of training, he will bankrupt Venezuela keeping a million man army together.
    u frogot he has oil, and diamonds while North Korea dosn't.


    Siblez. Venezula will not have a Civil War.

  12. #12
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    11,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BassV2
    u frogot he has oil, and diamonds while North Korea dosn't.


    Siblez. Venezula will not have a Civil War.
    You convinced me! Again, I'm not saying it will have one now, but it is a possibility in the future, especially as Chavez is antagonizing the middle and upper classes, making them into the enemy of the people, and arming the extremists that support him. Even if there is no middle and upper class left in twenty years, do you think these extremists will just stand idle and do nothing as they gain control of the country in the event that Chavez doesn't satisfy them any longer or dies? They'll do something alright, and one million assault rifles is not gonna help the situation a bit.

    P.S.- Venezuela has diamonds but they're not really worth much when compared to what it receives from oil alone. It also has gold, silver, steel, and practically every other natural resource you can think of.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

    Proud patron of: The Magnanimous Household of Siblesz
    "My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel." -Saudi Saying
    Timendi causa est nescire.
    Member of S.I.N.

  13. #13

    Default

    This army is hardly for defence purposes, the USA doesnt have any reason to attack his country until pulls a cuba and lets N Korea setup nuke sites with range on America and his million ak47 conscripts could hardly resist a single marine division supported by a carrier.

    This marxist people's army will be Chavez's SA brownshirts, his personal army oh thugs to keep the venezualan people in line and solidify his iron group on the country. He'll probably send some of them along with his shiney new spanish air force to support FARC rebels in columbia too.

  14. #14

    Default

    Too many weapons. yes, it's dangerous. I find it highly unlikely that the US will try an outright invasion, tho they may try a bay of pigs- contra-type thing. Either way, it will be dangerous to have so many firearms down the line.
    believe in nothing.

  15. #15

    Default

    This guy cant keep doing this stuff without consquences. Why hasnt the UN stepped in in this situation?
    "We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another." Johnathon Swift

    "Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine

  16. #16

    Default

    because by weaving his authoritarian plots together with vehement anti-Bush/America rhetoric he has become the darling of left, who of course number quite prominently in UN circles.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry
    because by weaving his authoritarian plots together with vehement anti-Bush/America rhetoric he has become the darling of left, who of course number quite prominently in UN circles.


    Yep...I think this is pretty much it. I've always said that the enemies of the U.S. will show themselves at our time of weakness, and that time is now imo. People are taking a stand with this administration, I dont remember people standing up against clinton or Bush Sr. like this. Thats why I think Bush Jr. will go down in history amongst the worst diplomatic foriegn policy presidents of all time. I think people outside the U.S. are starting to look at the U.S. and they see weakness and ineptness, and some people want to take advantage of that. It may sound paranoid but I think its true...the U.S. needs strong leadership now and I'm not seeing it.

  18. #18

    Default

    I find it highly unlikely that the US will try an outright invasion, tho they may try a bay of pigs- contra-type thing. Either way, it will be dangerous to have so many firearms down the line.
    The US has no plans to invade there. As been sais its just an excuse. If we really did want to remove him all those weapons and his army wouldnt stop us.
    I have nothing against the womens movement. Especially when Im walking behind it.


  19. #19
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, US
    Posts
    16,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry
    because by weaving his authoritarian plots together with vehement anti-Bush/America rhetoric he has become the darling of left, who of course number quite prominently in UN circles.
    or its because he hasent actually done anything wrong yet. ya that sounds better. Look, I dont like or trust the guy either,but until we have some sort of evidence of wrong doing, there is no reason for us or the UN to intervene
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company
    -Mark Twain

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman
    or its because he hasent actually done anything wrong yet. ya that sounds better. Look, I dont like or trust the guy either,but until we have some sort of evidence of wrong doing, there is no reason for us or the UN to intervene
    You obviously dont reach much if you've never seen anything in the news about what Chavez is doing. For one, in the last few elections it has been a non-secret ballot and anyone who votes against Chavez is fired from their jobs right after, but nothing wrong there, right?

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •