Iberian factions stripped off Templar and Hospitaller Order ?

[vtec.dominion]

I have just found that iberian factions (Portugal, Leon Castille and Aragon) are all stripped off both major religious orders - Templars and Hospitallers.
Can someone explain that ? All other catholic factions (not sure about HRE) have access to Templars and Hospitallers except iberian ones! Yeah, they have their own orders - Santiago and Montesa but these are local only (spain) and ain't working perfect. Aragon and Portugal have access to both Montesa and Santiago while Leon Castille can build/recruit Santiago only. All catholic factions have access to religious orders in Holy Land except iberians.
Can someone explain this as this seems pointless to me ?

[Ferdiad]

Balance mayhaps?

[vtec.dominion]

Yeah, prolly but what for ? They rarely do anything above constant defence. I have never seen any iberian faction dominating, never ever. Usually they die pretty fast and Portugal fail up to turn #100 is a sure bet. On the other side, France is dominating Europe very, very often im my games (late era) and usually they participate in iberian factions fail. If HRE is crusaded it is guaranteed France domination as the Brits are so *n' lazy or simply stupid they let these blue muppets expand vastly and rarely do something logic on continent (yeah, they lay siege to cean, get the fortress then 10 turns later are booted off the continent. Of course they have like 10 full stacks walking or should i say wanking on their isle but they rather cease fire or block a random port for a turn then use their damned armies properly!)
I have checked the iberian factions rosters and it looks pretty well except these religious orders mess.

[k/t]

Only Aragon can get Montesa.

[Ishan]

Chapter Houses in v6.4

Teutonic	Templars	Hospitallers	Santiago	Montesa
Thorn	Edessa	Edessa	Leon	Pamplona
Stettin	Antioch	Antioch	Oporto	Zaragoza
Hamburg	Aleppo	Aleppo	Salamanca	Valencia
Magdeburg	Damascus	Damascus	-	-
Palanga	Acre	Acre	-	-
-	Tortosa	Tortosa	-	-
-	Jerusalem	Jerusalem	-	-
-	Clermont	Iraklion	-	-
-	Toulouse	Rhodes	-	-

@vtec.dominion
How long have you played vanilla? Not much from the looks of it.
In it Santiago guild is for Spain & Portugal only, Teutonic for only HRE while Templar and Hospitaller guilds for the rest of the catholic factions.
That's the way it is in SS which is historically correct. Also i'm not a historical expert but i think Iberians weren't involved in Levant as their were fighting the moors doing Reconquista and stuff.

[guyverlance]

Chapter Houses in v6.4

Teutonic	Templars	Hospitallers	Santiago	Montesa
Thorn	Edessa	Edessa	Leon	Pamplona
Stettin	Antioch	Antioch	Oporto	Zaragoza
Hamburg	Aleppo	Aleppo	Salamanca	Valencia
Magdeburg	Damascus	Damascus	-	-
Palanga	Acre	Acre	-	-
-	Tortosa	Tortosa	-	-
-	Jerusalem	Jerusalem	-	-
-	Clermont	Iraklion	-	-
-	Toulouse	Rhodes	-	-

@vtec.dominion
How long have you played vanilla? Not much from the looks of it.
In it Santiago guild is for Spain & Portugal only, Teutonic for only HRE while Templar and Hospitaller guilds for the rest of the catholic factions.
That's the way it is in SS which is historically correct. Also i'm not a historical expert but i think Iberians weren't involved in Levant as their were fighting the moors doing Reconquista and stuff.

a huge rebuke! ahahaha +rep ishan you are so cool

[vtec.dominion]

Chapter Houses in v6.4

Teutonic	Templars	Hospitallers	Santiago	Montesa
Thorn	Edessa	Edessa	Leon	Pamplona
Stettin	Antioch	Antioch	Oporto	Zaragoza
Hamburg	Aleppo	Aleppo	Salamanca	Valencia
Magdeburg	Damascus	Damascus	-	-
Palanga	Acre	Acre	-	-
-	Tortosa	Tortosa	-	-
-	Jerusalem	Jerusalem	-	-
-	Clermont	Iraklion	-	-
-	Toulouse	Rhodes	-	-

@vtec.dominion
How long have you played vanilla? Not much from the looks of it.
In it Santiago guild is for Spain & Portugal only, Teutonic for only HRE while Templar and Hospitaller guilds for the rest of the catholic factions.
That's the way it is in SS which is historically correct. Also i'm not a historical expert but i think Iberians weren't involved in Levant as their were fighting the moors doing Reconquista and stuff.

Hehe, you're so right sir. I didn't play vanilla much and did it with Poland only
Yup, Spaniards obviously fight the Moors but then there is no America in SS so the Levant/Holy Lands is obvious direction for me.
I'll tweak the files giving them access to the Templars in Holy Land

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Chapter Houses in v6.4

Teutonic	Templars	Hospitallers	Santiago	Montesa
Thorn	Edessa	Edessa	Leon	Pamplona
Stettin	Antioch	Antioch	Oporto	Zaragoza
Hamburg	Aleppo	Aleppo	Salamanca	Valencia
Magdeburg	Damascus	Damascus	-	-
Palanga	Acre	Acre	-	-
-	Tortosa	Tortosa	-	-
-	Jerusalem	Jerusalem	-	-
-	Clermont	Iraklion	-	-
-	Toulouse	Rhodes	-	-

@vtec.dominion
How long have you played vanilla? Not much from the looks of it.
In it Santiago guild is for Spain & Portugal only, Teutonic for only HRE while Templar and Hospitaller guilds for the rest of the catholic factions.
That's the way it is in SS which is historically correct.

I'm sorry to say it but that is totally wrong. The first country in Europe where the Templars settled was in Portugal in 1128:

The Templars in Portugal

Order of the Knights of Christ (read first few lines about Templars)

They did that at the request of the first Portuguese King, Afonso Henriques. The motive was to help the Reconquista and to support the settling of christians in the newly conquered areas. Their base in Portugal was in:

Convent of Christ (Tomar)

It was also from their legacy that the Order of Christ was formed:

Order of Christ (Portugal)

You can read more thouroughly about their conection here:

Order of the Knights of Christ

Clayming what you have said is, sorry to say it, plain ignorance.

Also i'm not a historical expert but i think Iberians weren't involved in Levant as their were fighting the moors doing Reconquista and stuff.

And what does that have to do with recruitment in Europe being allowed for all other catholic factions except Iberians, when it was in the Iberian Peninsula that their military presence made the most significance?

Maybe we need a Portuguese Order: Order of the Knights of Christ

who took over Templar castles and monasteries in Portugal, such as this one:

http://traveldk.com/lisbon/member/co...e-cristo-tomar

(be a nice project for someone to make a fortified monastery like this!)
-----------------

and for balance maybe an Islamic Ribat - or fortified monastery:

http://www.castlesofspain.co.uk/CoS/...es/Ribats.html

Iberian Military Orders:

Order of Santiago

Order of Calatrava

Order of Christ

Order of Aviz

Order of Montesa

Some of these orders (Order of Christ and Order of Montesa), were created because of the persecution and banning of the Templars, that left a void in need of being filled.

It's just plain foolish, or shall I say, discrimination, to deny Templars to Iberians, as well as not to depict correctly, in the Stainless Steel MOD, the Iberian Military Orders.

[k/t]

If the guild houses are now regular buildings, can you get Hospitallers and Templars in the same city? You should be able to, since they were both fighting for the CS.

[Andytheplatypus]

If the guild houses are now regular buildings, can you get Hospitallers and Templars in the same city? You should be able to, since they were both fighting for the CS.

I think BG took care of that in his sub mod

[Ishan]

If the guild houses are now regular buildings, can you get Hospitallers and Templars in the same city? You should be able to, since they were both fighting for the CS.

No you have to choose from either one of them.
You can remove this condition though nothing technical in it as it's just blocked by a condition in EDB file.

[Avalanche]

I tweaked a bit current Chapter Houses form in my local files. I made it so that building are bind to regions as it is in vanilla 6.4 but allowed all catholic nations to build them if they capture correct settlement. Means if HRE capture Tolouse they train Templars and if they go for Pamplona also Montesa.
I think this is way more realistic

[Abriael]

I tweaked a bit current Chapter Houses form in my local files. I made it so that building are bind to regions as it is in vanilla 6.4 but allowed all catholic nations to build them if they capture correct settlement. Means if HRE capture Tolouse they train Templars and if they go for Pamplona also Montesa.
I think this is way more realistic

Would you mind explaining the steps to achieve this? I'd appreciate it

[Avalanche]

I am at my inlaws ATM so can't provide exact tips but basically it requires editing two export files: Building and Unit. In EDB you must find Chapter Houses line and make sure all christian nations are listed not just aragon in example. Secondly you must edit EDU and find proper units. Those are Mounted and Dismounted: Templars, Hospitalers, Montesa (listed as KM i suppose), Santiago and Ritterbruder and change lines which are at bottom of each unit and are: ownership and (if exist) era 1, era 2 and also add catholic nations.

So much for scripting. Now you need to copy models and unit infos. You need to copy files for each of those units (10 in total) to separate folder and when you have them all copy them back to correct (all catholics) factions folders. As I can't remember the fordel names exactly (will try to provide info later in the evening) they are based in UI folder and one is unit infos and second is models. So to have all you need to copy 20 files in total.

But most important: THIS IS SAVE GAME COMPATIBLE

Note: you can have some troubles in correct buildings showing as some are ment only for some cultures (example: Montesa will not show correctly for HRE) but again it can be corrected by copying buildings info and models from corrct folders.

I know it is a bit chaotic but can't help more right now. Enjoy

[vtec.dominion]

Would you mind explaining the steps to achieve this? I'd appreciate it

Well, you need to edit two files. You will find both in data folder.

1st: export_descr_buildings.txt

Find the order you're interested in editing and add to the faction pool any catholic faction you want. Do the same in recruitment pool then save.

2nd: export_descr_unit.txt

Find the units which are bound with the chapter house (ie: Knights_Templar) you edited and add to the faction pool any catholic faction you want. Save the changes and start the campaign

Then you have to go to this folder: data\ui
You will find there unit_info and units subfolders.

Lets say you want Crown of Aragon to have access to Knight Templars.
You can use the models and info from the "france" sub-folder in example.
So, copy all templar .tga files from data\ui\unit_info\france

to data\ui\unit_info\aragon.

There are two files you need to copy:
1. dismounted_knights_templar_info.tga
2. knights_templar_info.tga

Then go to data\ui\units\france and copy all templar .tga files to data\ui\unit_info\aragon.

There are also two files:
1. #dismounted_knights_templar.tga
2. #knights_templar.tga

Voila! Do the same for any other faction and chapter house you have modified and enjoy your game.
Hope you can do that yourself, but if you have any problems PM me and will try to help you out

[Spoon]

No you have to choose from either one of them.
You can remove this condition though nothing technical in it as it's just blocked by a condition in EDB file.

How do I remove this condition? I've no idea what the EDB file is

[Ferdiad]

export_descr_buildings in data folder.

[k/t]

It will say something like "exclude Templars" for the Hospitallers, and vice-versa. Delete that part.

[Avalanche]

Exclude Templars or Hospitallers was used in old guild (pre 6.4) system in export_descr_guilds.

Now to remove those conditions you must edit export_descr_buildings and find something like:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

montesa_minor_ch requires factions { aragon, } and hidden_resource montesa_chapter_house and not building_present knights_of_santiago_chapter_house

and make it look something like

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

montesa_minor_ch requires factions { aragon, } and hidden_resource montesa_chapter_house

This will let you build both chapter houses if hidden resource (from Ishan table) will allow - example in Jerusalem region

[Segador]

In Catalonia were Templars, maybe Barcelona should be allowed to make some.