Diplomacy Overhaul?

[ByzantinePowerGame]

I was wondering if anybody else has perhaps seen the need for an overhaul to the diplomacy? Perhaps not the options/diplomatic capabilities but the frequency with which other nations/tribes accept offers?

To be covered in my upcoming update is how the Ostrogoths lost their cities, one falling to the Huns, one falling to the Western Empire, and then they were driven to horde status with a few field units. In two turns they lost their leader, their heir, another family member, and three accompanying field units, ultimately being left with one new leader (no extra family members) and four or five depleted formations contained in one single field unit. I tried to offer them a ceasefire as I feel it might be beneficial to give them back the land across the Danube that I took from them, and employ them as a buffer against future Hun aggression, but they wouldn't accept the ceasefire.

The only things I can get other nations to accept are trade rights and map exchanges. I can never get them to accept ceasefire agreements, even if they only have one city left or no cities left. Even if they just lost five field armies in a row and have clearly been crushed.

I feel I shall have no choice but to simply destroy the Ostrogoths as I destroyed the Visigoths. The Vandals too will not accept a cease-fire and since they took a Roman city in Africa they must be made to pay, so I probably won't try to grant them a cease-fire now (I had tried before they took the city) and they probably wouldn't accept, even though they've lost most of their field formations.


That said, having played this mod for about 18 turns I can safely say it is probably the greatest mod in terms of fun, attention to detail, and overall enjoyability, perhaps closely tying with the Caesar Imperator mod. I almost feel like a Roman field army commander, rushing from one crisis to another. Crushing the Alamanni (to be covered in an upcoming update) after having secured the area along the Rhine previously covered by the forces of the usurper, only to have to march at full speed into the Balkans due to Eastern treachery.


I have a friend who won't even play the vanilla version of RTW without massive cheating (unlimited money, invincibility, creating dozens of units, etc), and he thought that the basic Barbarian Invasion game was overwhelming and unenjoyable because he felt overwhelmed and said if he lost more than a few units in any one area he would suffer huge strategic problems. I tried to explain to him, "that's pretty much the point, you have to be able to marshal enough forces to defeat your foe, without stripping another area bare, and while not losing so many men in battle that you weaken yourself for future battles."

The job of a 5th century Roman commander is no simple task.

One must conserve his forces while attaining what victories can easily be attained. Gaining a city but losting most of your force in the process does no good as you'll never be able to hold it... I'm about to teach the Vandals that lesson in North Africa... They stormed one of my cities that was not as well-defended as it should have been due to the fact I had sent most mobile worthy forces to Carthago Nova to defend that city and prepare for a campaign to reclaim Spain (in conjunction with an army marching in from Gaul- an army most likely to be redirected north to finish off the usurper in northwestern Gaul)...

They took my most western city in North Africa but it cost them at least 30-40% of their force in the process. They had launched several assaults on Carthago Nova as well, trying to get rid of my last foothold in Spain, but they lost each time, with appalling losses... They even lost (suffering 90% of their attacking force destroyed) when they had the gates opened by spies... I simply cut them down as they came through the choke point that was the main gate, using light cavalry to exit the two nearest gates... After that they had lost their main army in Spain and I took the fight to them, although their second major field force had just crossed into North Africa and was able to take my city in the west before I could respond... I anticipate that the Vandals will enter the annals of history within 12 more turns, depending on how fast I can move my forces and whether I opt for assaults or sieges in some areas.


Even still... They only have one major field force left and I've tried to make a cease-fire with them, mostly just to buy time to finish off the usurper in Gaul, wreck what is left of the Alamanni, and then be able to send forces south while sending some forces east, but they won't accept a cease-fire...

Had anybody else encountered that? Enemies that stubbornly refuse to negotiate no matter what?

[juvenus]

Had anybody else encountered that? Enemies that stubbornly refuse to negotiate no matter what?

Welcome to the realities of the SEGA's Diplomacy
Simply put, the game's diplomacy isn't diplomacy at all...that part of the game is broken so forget about it.
If you really wanna push it then you should try modifying diplomacy stats in the data folder, but even then there will hardly be any real improvement.

[Flavius Vegetius Renatus]

I thought this was the case Juvenus or someone would have fixed this Diplomacy issue long time ago. My favorite is the part when u level enemy to the last remaining stronghold and they still come to sign a peace treaty,ask for the return of all cities and pay em lump sum in damages, what a joke. Besides that i pay no attention to diplomacy here at all except maybe in the beginning when trade rights work in your favor as your economy is restricted but afer awhile u r at war with everybody anyway and its pointless to even try.

[juvenus]

@FVR:
exactly, trade rights in the beginning. NO DIPLOMACY later
The only thing you can do is to change the diplomacy stats but they only allow you to sign an alliance easier but are of no use when dealing with a hostile nation.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

@FVR:
exactly, trade rights in the beginning. NO DIPLOMACY later
The only thing you can do is to change the diplomacy stats but they only allow you to sign an alliance easier but are of no use when dealing with a hostile nation.

What do alliances really accomplish? My allies never attack any factions I ask them to attack and they never defend me or do much of anything for me...

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

There is always the force diplomacy mod of course . . .

[ByzantinePowerGame]

There is always the force diplomacy mod of course . . .

I've been playing the 77 BC mod (campaign medium, battles medium) with the quintus sertorius faction in Spain. I managed to evict the Romans from Spain, capture eight legionary eagles, totally destroy about 12-13 full Roman legions (I've about lost count), and I've now taken all of Cisalpine Gaul, Transalpine Gaul, and I am a short march from Rome.


Quintus Sertorius with eight cohorts and some Spanish infantry, Spanish cavalry, and Gallic cavalry, has basically smashed Roman army after Roman army.


Even still, Rome will not grant me a ceasefire (not that I really wanted one, I just wanted to see if they would grant it)... I've taken no less than eight of their legionary eagles, I've destroyed at least 12-13 of their legions (along with commanders, Pompey was killed around the second or third turn), and I've expelled them from Spain, Gaul, and northern Italy.