Most challenging factions to play as?

[mikil100]

Hi all, I've been playing as the Roman Empire (early) and the Teutons in late. My Teuton campaign actually has been quite challenging as I was attacked by Denmark, Novgorod, Poland, and Lithuania all at once, and was excommunicated when I tried to punish the stupid Polish for their attempt to quell my holy crusade, its been an up and down battle for survival, my faction is still excommunicated and I lose and gain settlements at equal rates, but still is quite likely that I will come out on top (Its actually 40 turns in, as I have been struggling back and forth)... In essence I'm fighting for survival with good chances of coming on top...

While its great fun, I'm wondering what are your experiences with other factions (particularly European) that have had a hard time at just surviving, and took a long time just to become a local power?

[DMyles]

I think it has a lot to do with the settings and any house rules you might play with. On the settings I like (medium/medium or hard/hard with BGR4, limited activities, savage ai) the crusader states are very hard. I also play with the house rule that you can't lose your original capital or you lose the game. I always lose by the first jihad on Jerusalem.

It is very hard to recruit troops because of the religion in your own regions. The Troops you start with will put you in the negative money on the first turn if you move them all to the field, but if you get rid of them there is no other way to recruit troops that good. If you leave them all in regions you are losing about 1500 per turn. If you go into the negative money for a while you leaders will all get bad traits and it will take forever to pay it back with interest. The lesser nobles will get banished too or rebel in the field.

I had one game where the Fatmids only had one region left. I also had a booming economy and good religious conversion by this time. I had half a stack in Jerusalem and a full stack hanging around the region but the turks sent two full stacks and the Khwarezm sent a stack and I couldn't beat them all off.

[Ferdiad]

Kwarzeminian+BGR IVE VH/VH Late.

[Polycarpe]

Kwarzeminian+BGR IVE VH/VH Late.

Geez, impossible campaign

[TheBard]

Aragon and Portugal are tricky if you have difficult house rules (especially no starting wars and no rushing).

[Mihajlo]

Kwarzeminian+BGR IVE VH/VH Late.

Yeah, I tried that one, big fail. Couldnt do anything. Then I try again, in some very odd way I survive and made peace with mongols, but few turns later turks and egypt (wtf?!) come after me, and I lost again :/
I guess palying battles on vh against mongols make it impossible because of all that ai bonuse to units so you will lose tons of troops even if you keep wining battles... would like someone to show me here how they manage to survive on this terms without using any cheats...
gracul ai+bgr IV really making game veeery hard when you face more then one strong enemy at start of your campaign... on hv/vh+gracul ai, but without bgr, campaign with Kwarz. was not so scary...

[SonofPeverel]

Kwarzeminian+BGR IVE VH/VH Late.

possibly the hardest in TWC

[mikil100]

I personally play with pretty strict houserules, but only use savage AI and H/M or VH/M...never really cared for BGR or RR that much.

[Ichon]

With enough house rules most any faction can become more difficult. The European factions usually breaks down something close to...

1. Lithuania/Kiev
2. Portugal, CS
3. Norway, Aragon, Venice, HRE, Teutons
4. France, Denmark, Poland
5. Castile, Genoa, Hungary, Novgorod
6. England, Scotland, Byzantines

Non Europeans-

1. Cumans/K-Shah (only on late campaign are they really hard, but still harder than most on early as you face Mongols nearly all alone).
2. Turks
3. Fatimids
4. Moors

[Lanier]

In the early campaign, the turks are probably the toughest. While they have a lot of room to expand, they are also squished between two nations that always become superpowers (the Fatamids and the Byzantines) and another nation that, for a good portion of the campaign, has nowhere to expand but into your lands (kwarezm empire).

[Ichon]

In the early campaign, the turks are probably the toughest. While they have a lot of room to expand, they are also squished between two nations that always become superpowers (the Fatamids and the Byzantines) and another nation that, for a good portion of the campaign, has nowhere to expand but into your lands (kwarezm empire).

Turks can be hard but you aren't in immediate danger of losing if you play them like CS or Lithuania so I don't count them as the most difficult. They can be deceptive though, first few turns feel easy and then gradually it gets more difficult as more empires DoW and there are few natural barriers to help defense unlike with HRE which can at least count on a few provinces protected.

[Lanier]

Turks can be hard but you aren't in immediate danger of losing if you play them like CS or Lithuania so I don't count them as the most difficult. They can be deceptive though, first few turns feel easy and then gradually it gets more difficult as more empires DoW and there are few natural barriers to help defense unlike with HRE which can at least count on a few provinces protected.

True, but I consider the turks to be harder than the HRE... while the HRE has a few more potential enemies surrounding them, they dont have to contend with being squashed between factions that consistently become superpowers, nor do they have to contend with factions that have no way to expand except into their lands.

[k/t]

The hardest faction to play as is Ireland.

[Dark Lord's Heir]

The hardest faction to play as is Ireland.

Because they don't even exist anymore

[thesmiter1]

Because they don't even exist anymore

I guess the OP didn't specify what version.

[k/t]

Because they don't even exist anymore

Exactly. It's damn near impossible to play as them. Doesn't get harder than that.

[Kernow]

The hardest faction to play as is Ireland.

Jeez. How can you not own the map in 6.2 with Muire heavy infantry and longbow men.

I turned the map green, just to see if I could for March 17th 2010, on gracul ai +BGR. If anything Ireland were an easier faction than England.

[Ichon]

Yeah K Shah with BGR on late is quite difficult because half your generals are untrustworthy and will rebel if given an army to fight the Mongols and your King + Heir has a hard time fighting all the necessary battles. I did it on 6.2 but the Mongols have been buffed since then. I'll try it again in 6.4 eventually.

[Arkh]

I think england is one of the toughest nut to crack.

[Gogolometro]

I invade England with byzantines. And their nuts are mine.