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Thread: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

  1. #121
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by gogo t View Post
    10x for the info. So can you tell us what colors you will use for the tzardoms?
    hard decision cause many nations use red and yellow color. serbia, bulgaria, aragon, athens (catalans)
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
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  2. #122
    SpyrosM91's Avatar Despotes
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    ...and don't forget the byzies (the main faction...after the union)
    Proud Tsardoms Total War: Historian - Coder - Scripter - Mapper

  3. #123

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    ok, i found it. i read this. sorry, dusan's flag is kept in hilandar. one more clue
    there is monthly serbian magazine "istorija" (history). i found this interesting article about serbian flag.
    there was a ragusian text from 1281. which says that flag was red and blue with no more description. well, they put whole description of flag, but i don't know where they found it. anyways, here's the translation and replica of it.
    "red color represents defense of freedom, and blue defense of justice. Red-blue cross on flag represents symbol of lord's holy cross. Cross is symbol of birth and death. Red and blue are the oldest color in serbian history. In the center of the cross is circle with christ monogram IC XC and greek word NIKA. Four crosses represents four evangelists john, luke, mark and matthew"

    replica
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    and for the tsardom's flag:
    "second flag of serbia was flag of Tsar Dushan, but because of time passing, it became green. in the middle of the flag there is two-headed eagle. this flag is kept in hilandar"

    well, they didn't put what was the real color. by ragusian text and Angelino Dulcer (there are also ragusian texts with description as yellow) we can say it was yellow
    Skačeš sam sebi u stomak, brate! Angelino Dulcert is cartographer from Catalonia! Is his info more true then info from Ragusa ( Dubrovnik ), Serbian unofficial bank and trade canter? What else reliable source is for yellow flag?
    Saying that Tzar Dushan is conquering Byzantines territory's and take over flag of Isak I Komnenos , who lived 300 years before Dushan, is quite at will...
    Keep to historic sources.
    Last edited by sale70; March 30, 2011 at 04:15 PM.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix[illusion] View Post
    hard decision cause many nations use red and yellow color. serbia, bulgaria, aragon, athens (catalans)
    Red and blue color is used for Russian faction where blue is primary color. Maybe you can use red/blue with primary red for Serbia?

  5. #125
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by sale70 View Post
    Skačeš sam sebi u stomak, brate! Angelino Dulcert is cartographer from Catalonia! Is his info more true then info from Ragusa ( Dubrovnik ), Serbian unofficial bank and trade canter? What else reliable source is for yellow flag?
    Saying that Tzar Dushan is conquering Byzantines territory's and take over flag of Isak I Komnenos , who lived 300 years before Dushan, is quite at will...
    Keep to historic sources.
    i said dulcert's and ragusian texts. there is also one ragusian mentioning yellow flag. read it a long time ago, can't remember where.
    double headed eagle on yellow flag was flag of roman emperors till the last days. it was not state flag, but royal flag. first it was komnenoi dynasty flag, but later it just became royal flag. other thing is paleologoi flag, it was family flag
    it's the same as emperor of nicaea took byz royal flag, symbolizing his claim over roman empire


    Quote Originally Posted by sale70 View Post
    Red and blue color is used for Russian faction where blue is primary color. Maybe you can use red/blue with primary red for Serbia?
    we'll see, it's easy to change
    Last edited by phoenix[illusion]; March 30, 2011 at 08:45 PM.
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
    Under patronage of respectable Annaeus
    Patron of honorable Giacomo Colonna


  6. #126

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    The map of Angelino Dulcert is not a real basis for historic accuracy of flags of European factions ( look at a England, Norway and Sweden ):
    Attachment 152755
    Anyway, i think that colors of factions must be different from one to another, so players can right away know what happening on map. I play now a mod ( FA ) where lot of factions have similar colors, characters are in same color ( all muslims are green, orthodox an catholics are red with east/west looks...) what makes many problems during play. So, having factions in known colors makes game more easier and playable ( like Byzantines - purple, Bulgarians - green/gold, Hungarians red/green, Venetians red/gold, Serbia - yellow, and so on...), so when you see character on map you know right away what's happening...

    One big + for discussion!

  7. #127
    Bagatyr's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    where is bulgarin flag i can see it ? Rep + for the map .




  8. #128

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    The map is upside-down. I think the one left from Hungarian. Here is another copy.
    Attachment 152783
    But this maybe much more interesting to moder, sorry, no flag of Serbia and Bulgaria.
    Attachment 152793
    Can someone find it in higher resolution?
    There is two flags, Blue/yellow pointing to Kotor and Solun. Is this old Serbian flag, claiming this towns to Dushan?
    Last edited by sale70; March 31, 2011 at 01:01 PM. Reason: New info

  9. #129
    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    no matter, for now, all we can know that it is yellow with red eagle
    i know, everybody would wish it was more serbian, but remember that many realms had different flag than today (bulgaria, russia, czech republic etc.)
    anyways, i'm not sure either for the flag, but considering that one in hilandar gone green, it's more probably that it was yellow. anyways nice discussion

    here's bigger map
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...pside-down.jpg

    it's flipped, so bagatyr, there will be no problem for you
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
    Under patronage of respectable Annaeus
    Patron of honorable Giacomo Colonna


  10. #130
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by sale70 View Post
    So, having factions in known colors makes game more easier and playable ( like Byzantines - purple, Bulgarians - green/gold, Hungarians red/green, Venetians red/gold, Serbia - yellow, and so on...), so when you see character on map you know right away what's happening...
    Except the Bulgarians didn't use green (except in the Knights of Honor game, but that was inaccurate). They used red/gold, black/gold and black/silver, as I've shown some examples here. Well, there's also one obscure report I read long time ago about a Bulgarian soldiers' (voynuks') flag in early Ottoman times, which is somewhat similar to our modern one in terms of colour - white hand in green circle on red field (I made it for BGTW, I think it's included in v2).

  11. #131

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    I play some mode where Bulgaria have black flag with silver lion standing ( rampant ). Is that what you meant?

  12. #132
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    I've given examples in the post I linked to, but here's a site with the most well-known Bulgarian CoAs anyway. Btw, this one can be noted too - Bulgaria (and Volga Bulgaria) in the foreign CoAs (Hungary for Danubian and Russia for Volga Bulgaria).
    Last edited by NikeBG; April 02, 2011 at 07:55 AM.

  13. #133

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Yes, i think this is good. It will be different then other factions, and looks very interesting ( i like lions ). One with tree lions passing looks like England ( can be confusing ). Bull's head i think is not appropriate.

  14. #134
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by NikeBG View Post
    I've given examples in the post I linked to, but here's a site with the most well-known Bulgarian CoAs anyway. Btw, this one can be noted too - Bulgaria (and Volga Bulgaria) in the foreign CoAs (Hungary for Danubian and Russia for Volga Bulgaria).
    Very nice and interesting collection of CoAs!

  15. #135
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by sale70 View Post
    One with tree lions passing looks like England ( can be confusing ).
    Confusing - yes. Though it's even more confusing if you consider that very similar, almost identical, CoAs existed for various counties - f.e. IIRC Bavaria had almost the same CoA as the gold-black one there, a bunch of other counties as well. It's unavoidable - lions and eagles are universal symbols all over Europe (and beyond) and it's expectable that if so many people use them, they'd eventually have very close similarities.
    As for the bull's head, as the site shows, it was the CoA of the Vidin/Bdin Bulgarian tsardom of Ioan Sratsimir, the last one that fell.

  16. #136
    2Shy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by NikeBG View Post
    As for the bull's head, as the site shows, it was the CoA of the Vidin/Bdin Bulgarian tsardom of Ioan Sratsimir, the last one that fell.
    The bull's head was most probably inherited from the romanian principalities.Ivan Sracimir mother is Theodora of Wallahia and his wife is Anna of Wallahia (both from the Bessarab dynasty).

  17. #137
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Yes, probably. And considering how he felt tricked after Ioan Alexander proclaimed Ioan Shishman as his heir, instead of Ioan Sratsimir, as well as the general animosity towards his new "stepmother", the Jewish Teodora, it's logical that he'd put an even greater emphasis on the line of his own mother, the Wallachian Teodora.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Let's stick to faction colors for now, OK? I think that is important to have different - but historical (as much as possible) accurate colors. If all Byzantine families are red, Ottomans are red, Venetians are red, Bulgarians are red, you will have all red strat-map with two dots of yellow and blue (Serbia & Wallachia ), and map full with red armies and characters. That's not so interesting, don't you think?

  19. #139
    Lуra's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Where has this mod been all my life!!!!!!!!!!!! :O

    The Dread Pirate Roberts IV

  20. #140

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - MAP & GAMEPLAY PREVIEW

    Христос Воскресе! Срећан Ускрс свим Правоверцима!
    Last edited by sale70; April 25, 2011 at 01:38 PM.

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