Europe Monarchy-The West (EMTW) Proposal and Brainstorming

[Polycarpe]

Good day to you, dear fan of Middle Age. I start an ambitious project. This will be called Europe Monarchy-The West. Basically, this submod will mainly focus on the Western part of Europe. The British Isles, the North-West of Scandinavia, the North of Iberia, half of Italy and all the Middle-West of Europe will be included. This submod will starts at 1245 to 1550. This timeframe was one of the most important period of the Western Europe for many kingdoms.

Here's a map of Europe, the red square is the focus of the submod:


As you can see, several existing factions will be included as well new factions. Here's a list of factions included in EMTW:

Kingdom of France
Kingdom of England
Kingdom of Scotland
Kingdom of Ireland
Welsh Kingdom
Republic of Genoa
Republic of Milan
Republic of Venice
Papal States (Non-playable)
Holy Roman Empire
Kingdom of Portugal
Kingdom of Castille
Kingdom of Aragon
Kingdom of Norway
Kingdom of Denmark
County of Flander
Duchy of Burgundy



This submod will be similar to Caesar Clivus Battle of the Baltic mod. I will personally search throughout the TWC to find the best mini-mods, unit models and eye candy to include in EMTW. I also privatize the historical importance of the unit rosters as well family members. I will also add many scripts that will gives some new things as well new knowledge on each faction.

Help Required: This project cannot be done alone. Here's what I will need help:

-Someone(s) who has knowledge on the Geomod for making a map.
-Someone(s) who can be the Historian, researchers, etc.
-Someone(s) who know how to add a faction into game (adding the name, banners, etc)
-Someone(s) who can help me to do a unit roster based on historical researches.
-Someone(s) who is good at playing with unit texture.

If any member wants to contribute with their own stuff, I will really appreciate it.
This project is in Brainstorming phase, collecting information about each factions as well what things will be added into EMTW.


Members of the Project:
Byzantium Guard, project leader, unit rosters/coding/EDU/EDB.
SonofPeverel, historian/researcher.
Discet, Historian/researcher.
Rus-Bey, unit rosters/modelers/unit skinner.
Blip99, Mapper

Update List:
Discet added to the team.
Change the starting date from 1280 to 1245.

[Polycarpe]

Here's a picture of the map I'll focus on, that way, it will help to understand the project



The Red square will be the focus.

[Polycarpe]

List of factions that is sure to be in the mod:

-Kingdom of Scotland -Kingdom of Ireland(yes lads)
-Kingdom of England -Welsh Kingdom
-Kingdom of France -Kingdom of Denmark
-Holy roman Empire -Kingdom of Norway

Aside these, which factions should be in also?
And I would like to know the best timeframe and Era period that really as an important impact on the Western Europe.

EDIT: Added other factions

-Republic of Genoa/Milan
-Republic of Venice
-Papal States (non-playable)
-Kingdom of Aragon (almost taken by the Moors)
-Kingdom of Spain
-Kingdom of Portugal
-Moors (still thinking if I had it or not)
-Hungary (still thinking if I had it or not)
-Poland (still thinking if I had it or not)

[VINC.XXIII]

definitivly, I like this focus...
From my humble view, 1300/1400 time frame
Or you play less the Crusades, and less the last Italian adventures of the Germans/French.

Great project anyway.

"Aside these, which factions should be in also?"
Its according the exact time frame
Swiss and Milan , Flanders or Bourgogne would be nice. Always, according your choice of timeframe.

Not mention to see unhistoric faction as playable.

[Polycarpe]

definitivly, I like this focus...
From my humble view, 1300/1400 time frame
Or you play less the Crusades, and less the last Italian adventures of the Germans/French.

Great project anyway.

Hmm..maybe I'll do a poll later on the timeframe Thanks for the advice mate

[Gogolometro]

Spain is very important. Call it Leon, Aragon or Navarre but this must not be missed.

[Polycarpe]

Spain is very important. Call it Leon, Aragon or Navarre but this must not be missed.

Taken into consideration.

EDIT: Here an updated map that will include more factions:


Also, thinking about the timeframe, maybe 1280 to 1450 might be good?

[Gorrrrrn]

re map -you might as well include the whole of Spain and Sicily?
if you want you could also go a bit futher east to take in the heel of Italy (or the whole of Italy if you prefer.)

depending on time frame you could have both Milan and Genoa - (strange that we hardly have any requests for bringing back Milan as a faction.)

Should really squeeze Burgundy into your factions if poss.

[Polycarpe]

re map -you might as well include the whole of Spain and Sicily?
if you want you could also go a bit futher east to take in the heel of Italy (or the whole of Italy if you prefer.)

depending on time frame you could have both Milan and Genoa - (strange that we hardly have any requests for bringing back Milan as a faction.)

Should really squeeze Burgundy into your factions if poss.

I may probably do for 1280-1550 for timeframe (update in the first post). With this era, Sicily was HRE's vassal if I remember correctly. Milan and Burgundy might be really interesting as well Swiss and possibly Flemish but not quite sure.

@Rus-Bey, then you'reinterested , I'll add you into the group

[VINC.XXIII]

""1280 to 1450 might be good?""
The most polyvalent period as well
According your updated choice:
And representing the Zeneixi in TWC, obvsiouly I propose the Superb Republic of Genoa/Superba Repubrica de Zêna.
Potentially Republica di Pisa, as AOR units and strong rebel personnality.
And personally I would contribute to make your Ligurian Region the most accurate about the units...I'm feeling more than pleased about this.

This project is becoming much more interesting for me if the focus is increased about the occidental part of the Great Sea!

[VINC.XXIII]

Thanks for the estim.

"Flemish but not quite sure"
I proposed this when I don't knew you decision about time frame.
Clearly, if you make the Valois's Burgundy playable you need to get your flemish as potential rebels such "Communi Liberi". Or some Arteveld's movement.
Simply because, the Duc of Burgundy is himself the right Count of Flanders. After the death of Louis of Male...
By marriage with Louis of Male's daughter, the Valois became leader of one VIP economic area.
By this holding, the Valois's Bourguignon dynasty started to think in term of independance/autonomy. And the most later(Phillipe de Bourgogne and his son Charles), the Duchy of Bourgogne became simply one big parasite for the french king. But its another specific sub-thread...

[Polycarpe]

Perfect, updated on the first post, added Burgundy and Flemish.

[VINC.XXIII]

"Kingdom of Burgundy"
"Flemish Kingdom"

Nothing is "kingdom" for the flemish. They should be only one patchwork of the principal flemish cities(and the most turbulents): Brugges and Gand and potentially Antwerp/Anvers.
Believe me, nothing is coherent in the flemish movement for the communal autonomy. So no king, no kingdom. And really I don't see any true faction who could represent the alliance between these enemies.(Gand and Brugges and the small others)
To the first conclusion, only one County of Flanders would be historically suitable in 1280.
With one special event who merge Duchy of Burgondy and County of Flanders while the 1361's year. If you want are fully strict, but that would be also fully artificial.

Idem, the Regnum Burgondiae, its another state, under the germanic authority, and slowly turned under the french authority, the germanic part became the Swiss Cantons(fully independants) and Comté de Savoie(somewhat very linked to France and HRE)
The King of Burgundia and the King of Italia are simply...the Kaiser himself.
But the two "small" crowns were often occulted by the great germanic crown.
It will be easy for you to read it...^^. I let you know at large.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royaume_de_Bourgogne

The Valois dynasty of Bourgogne holded only the "Comté" and the "Duché". Not the Provence, and not the Alps.


One interesting blog about flemish(just some elements):
http://flemishamerican.blogspot.com/...s-flemish.html

The Battle of Courtrai, particulary interesting for the french and flemish rosters. Note: The Godendac(big poleaxe) is existing in BC, as Yeniceri's poleaxe.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Courtrai_(1302)
PS:"Bataille des éperons d'or (étude), Nicaise de Keyser, 1836." this painting is upper bad and fully incorrect as right illustration of the 1302's stuff. The stuff painted is very more later. Effarant!


dsl si tu as des problèmes pour comprendre, si tu as des questions, n'hésite pas à me les poser en privée.
Tout ce que je viens de dire est très facilement vérifiable avec Wiki. J'ai des livres spécialisés, mais Wiki est absolument correct pour ce sujet. Tout concorde.
je suis mal à l'aise pour parler sérieusement en anglais...Je passe pour un analphabète lol...

[Polycarpe]

Then, Flemish will only be a rebel faction. It is the same for Burgundy? Don't know if they have an important impact on that period . If not, I'll move it to a rebel factions as well.

Several ideas for this project:
-A total rework on the units in game. I'll try to make units more realistic by adding several weapons for a unit. For example, the feudal knights will fight with a combination of maces, axes, swords and hammers. Specific weapons and training will make that unit only use that kind of weapon (Eg. Pikemen)

-Adding heroes for factions that will appear with a script (period or triggering event). Some heroes will be included, please fell free to share idea for heroes as well:
Joan of Arc
William Wallace
That's only the two ones that come in mind for now.

-I'll do a revamp on the buildings as well adding new buildings. Suggestions are welcome.

-Since there's much more less factions to cover than the Grand campaign, I'm more free to gives each faction more unique units, trying to have less generic units and new mercenaries.

-I'm interested to make the faction name to his native language name (Eg. Royaume de France). Specific/unique units will also share the native language name. (again, Eg. Chevalier Français, Lancier). I'm pretty lucky on that part because most of the members in TWC are Europeans

-This one might be interesting, since all the factions are Catholic, it will be useless to continue with religion. Do you remember the Britannica expansion campaign? There wasn't no religion but culture. I would like to add this into this project as well. Let say your're playing England and you decide to invade Norway. Since almost no English culture is implanted, several Norway units will be recruited and most of the English roster will not be available until your culture is high enough to recruit your units. I'll need to know what is the limit of different culture I can implement
EDIT: Ishan answers my question, only 7 culture can be added, quite scarce but I could work it

[PerXX]

-A total rework on the units in game. I'll try to make units more realistic by adding several weapons for a unit. For example, the feudal knights will fight with a combination of maces, axes, swords and hammers.

So, are we getting Armor Piercing swords? Or cutting maces? How about the huge difference in attack value between swords and maces?

[Ferdiad]

Then, Flemish will only be a rebel faction. It is the same for Burgundy? Don't know if they have an important impact on that period . If not, I'll move it to a rebel factions as well.

Several ideas for this project:
-A total rework on the units in game. I'll try to make units more realistic by adding several weapons for a unit. For example, the feudal knights will fight with a combination of maces, axes, swords and hammers. Specific weapons and training will make that unit only use that kind of weapon (Eg. Pikemen)

-Adding heroes for factions that will appear with a script (period or triggering event). Some heroes will be included, please fell free to share idea for heroes as well:
Joan of Arc
William Wallace
That's only the two ones that come in mind for now.

-I'll do a revamp on the buildings as well adding new buildings. Suggestions are welcome.

-Since there's much more less factions to cover than the Grand campaign, I'm more free to gives each faction more unique units, trying to have less generic units and new mercenaries.

-I'm interested to make the faction name to his native language name (Eg. Royaume de France). Specific/unique units will also share the native language name. (again, Eg. Chevalier Français, Lancier). I'm pretty lucky on that part because most of the members in TWC are Europeans

-This one might be interesting, since all the factions are Catholic, it will be useless to continue with religion. Do you remember the Britannica expansion campaign? There wasn't no religion but culture. I would like to add this into this project as well. Let say your're playing England and you decide to invade Norway. Since almost no English culture is implanted, several Norway units will be recruited and most of the English roster will not be available until your culture is high enough to recruit your units. I'll need to know what is the limit of different culture I can implement
EDIT: Ishan answers my question, only 7 culture can be added, quite scarce but I could work it

Perhaps ise these?These are just off the the top of my head.

Celtic
Norman
Cosmoplitan or Maybe French?
Iberian
Scandinavian
German
Italian

[Merula]

Would actually love to help you BG but as you can see from my sig, i am otherwise employed at the moment, but if it gets put on hold for some time id be happy to help at a later stage
(im a mapper if you hadnt guessed yet )

[Polycarpe]

@Blip99:Glad that you proposed yourself mate. Tell me when you'll be free for mapping . Added you in the team.
@PerXX:I'll probably adjust stats by following PB's RC stats and tweaking it a little. AP might disappear for one-handed weapons.
@Ferdiad:That's a good list, +rep for that

[PerXX]

@PerXX:I'll probably adjust stats by following PB's RC stats and tweaking it a little. AP might disappear for one-handed weapons.

But, without Armor Piercing/Crushing, weapons such as the mace are useless. Their very purpose is being effective against highly armored opponents.

I'd wish people like you and RollingWave would stick to just doing one thing well. Both of your rosters are very good and interesting, but you both start up branching out to new things, before getting done with what you started with. You're both doing new things without your first original mods are compatible..

I'm sure what you're doing are both good and probably well liked. I just wish the KISS model was more used. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Set a short-term goal, and finish that before moving on to new stuff.
Now we've got;
HRRM
BGS
CHIP
EMTW
and a whole lot more.
All of them seem very interesting, but neither of them are 100% complete, and none are currently compatible with eachother, forcing us regular users to chose between the various great mods.
I understand, of course, the artist must go the way his heart show him. I'd just wish I could use all these great works together.

[Polycarpe]

Your're are right PerXX. I would love to keep it simple but there's many factors that would stop some projects.
RW and I are the ones who remake the unit rosters for all factions. From a player's perspective, we should both RW and myself merges our work. But unfortunately, both of us have ideas that aren't compatible.

CHIP is leaded by Rozanov, he's the one who decides about how the mod and recruitment will work. RW and me will gives our unit rosters to CHIP, that was our part of the job as we could say.

RW will continue his own submod. I'll update my submod by adding the new units but I'll move my idea of new buiidings and recruitment to EMTW.

As for the multi-weapons for units, only combination of swords and axes will not have AP. Maces, axes and hammers will have AP.