Italian factions

[Polycarpe]

I'm interested to work on the Italian factions to really make them more better, diverse and unique. I would like to know your knowledges on the Italians (Venice, Genoa and Sicily). Here's some though about them:

-The Familia Dugale of the Genoese roster should be included to Venice as well because both of them were under the govern of a Doge.
-I'll really distinguish the Italian militia from the rest of the Europe. Stronger, better equipped.
-I think I'll do a specific Italian crossbowmen for both Venice and Genoa. Genoa will have more experience and more numerous than Venice.

That's all I have for now, I want you to continue the ideas for the Italians.

[DAVIDE]

I dont know if this is the right place to post this... anyway i have just installed this game and it rocks! But being myself practically a Venetian (town is less than 80 km from my house), i have something to say about names etc.. let's start:

The militia in Venetian and Istrian land-territory is called "Cernida" (Cernida is singular, whilst Cernide is plural), so Venetian/Istrian militia with spear for example, should be called "Cernida with spear" etc. etc.... Cernide (militias) in Dalmatia were called "Cranide" or "Craine".

Arsenaloti: were the workers and soldiers located in the Venetian arsenal. The protectors of this structure. Armed with brandistocco (a 3 blades staff) or with an halberd

Schiavoni: Istrian Dalmatian infantry using the Schiavona sword

Fanti da Mar: Serenissima infantry corp armed with cuirass, spear and sword

Cavalieri di San Marco (Knights of Saint Mark), armor, shield and sword

Ordine della Stola d'Oro (Order of the Golden Stole) - Venetian patricians, armor, shield and sword wearing golden stole etc.

Stradioti (cavalry) from Greece and Albania

Cimarioti (calvalry) from Albania

Sfakioti (cavalry) from Sfakia, Crete


For the rest, i should give a more detailed look to Venetian units in game...


Btw for a detailed look at Venetian army organization there's a book by Mallett and Hales called 'The military organization of a renaissance state - Venice 1400 to 1617'.

[Polycarpe]

How funny, I just start a thread about the Italian factions. We could merge these to one topic. Here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=430180

[hippacrocafish]

Schiavoni: Istrian Dalmatian infantry using the Schiavona sword

I might be mistaken, but I think those were Croatian slaves that acted as the Doge's personal guard right? And I don't think they were around in this timeframe, I'm pretty sure the Schianova came around the 17th century.

[DAVIDE]

I might be mistaken, but I think those were Croatian slaves that acted as the Doge's personal guard right? And I don't think they were around in this timeframe, I'm pretty sure the Schianova came around the 17th century.

Well, in the Serenissima the term Schiavonia was referred to everyone coming from Dalmatia and Istria, lands making part of the Venetian Stato da Mar and administred as a serie of provinces making part to a specific town or his contado and called as "reggimenti". A reggimento according to the Venetian law was a territorial circumscription forming the dominion of Venice. The name comes from the fact that in those territories, Venice was usual sending his own magistrates "to manage" those administrations, people called "rettori" or "representatives" (from the verb reggere aka to manage), for the fact that those magistrates had to represent the power of "la dominante", ancient term used to describe an Italian sea republic as Venice. Schiavona's a sword used by them yes in the XVII century but before that Schiavoni existed anyway in Venetian army even if lately the sword was directly used to label them. for example we have sources telling that in the war against Trieste, 1368, the Schiavoni received the title of "Fedelissima Gonfaloniera" for the courage shown in the war.

[Abriael]

they sure are in dire need of better sound files. The ridiculized "mediterranean" accent in speeches and such makes my ears bleed.

[Lord Humungus]

1. Familia Ducale should be the name of doge's bodyguards IMO, not an actual recruitable unit.
2. Italian city states should be much more mercenary-oriented, I'd even suggest giving them special mercenary-building to allow recruitment in cities (just like byzantines do).
3. There should be more condottieri variations, not just cavalry.

[Gnostiko]

2. Italian city states should be much more mercenary-oriented, I'd even suggest giving them special mercenary-building to allow recruitment in cities (just like byzantines do).

Bear in mind it's nothing more than a barracks with a different picture and name, not like the old Inn's from MITW.

[DAVIDE]

Doge hadnt bodyguards

[DioD2]

Hey BG check this site out for the Sicilian weaponry, armor, units (since Sicily came to be from the Normans) http://homepages.tesco.net/~tinyclan...nt_weapons.htm

[hippacrocafish]

Genoa was actually governed by a Podesta (An official appointed by the HRE) they didn't get a Doge until the 16th century.

I'd be more than happy to help you with this little project, any plans to include in CHIP or as a sub(sub) mod for CHIP?

EDIT: I've suggested the mercenary building idea before, I'd really like that to be implemented.

[CelticAssassin]

Problem with Italian factions is that hardly anyone wants to play with militias being the core of their army, they want professional soldiers and knights.

[Alavaria]

Problem with Italian factions is that hardly anyone wants to play with militias being the core of their army, they want professional soldiers and knights.

I actually really like their militia roster. Militia spears and crossbows are awesome.

Trying a city campaign with them is fun, tho depends on getting their merchant cavalry militia for the usual anti-archer/siege/router thing.

[Caesar Clivus]

Merged similar topics

[Chodetaculous]

Venice is terrifying because of Stradiots. I will never get into an argument with an Albanian now.

[Polycarpe]

Davide, would you like to make a sort of Venice unit roster so I could have a better idea about Venetians . I think the Italians were fighting with several weapons that clearly distinguish from the other: Warhammers (short and long shaft), Crossbow and arbalest and heavy spear. (this is what I think, don<t have enough knowledge on them )

[cisse]

BG, if you ever take the units Davide suggests and mod them in, I'm gonna load you with rep.

That sounds just awesome. Of course, I might be biased a bit because Venice is my favourite faction, but stil...

[DAVIDE]

ok i'll do it in next days when i have freetime

[VINC.XXIII]

Very interesting thread...
Davide, how I can name with true venetian name my Fanti da Màr?
I thinked to Fanterià da Màr.
I means, I would use the venetian dialect for the venetian units...

"Schiavoni"
"I think those were Croatian slaves"

Why "slaves"? You means "slavery" or "slavicity"
Some slovenes were mercenaries for Venexa, they haden't any obligations to serve Venexa.
As well, some was partisans of Venexa, others prefered to serve the italian bishops or germanic princes.

[DAVIDE]

Very interesting thread...
Davide, how I can name with true venetian name my Fanti da Màr?
I thinked to Fanterià da Màr.
I means, I would use the venetian dialect for the venetian units...

It's their name abbreviated.. Fanti is used too in their language exactly as in Italian. The full name of this unit pronounced in Venetian is "Fantaria da Mar"

"Schiavoni"
"I think those were Croatian slaves"

With the term Σλάβος aka Slavos, the Greeks of the middle age globally indicated the people of Slavic origin living in a certain geographical area that, during the barbarian invasions, committed devastation in the Roman empire. When Venetians called Schiavonia the Dalmatia and Istria (Schiavonia from the neo latin term "Sclavo/Sclabo" and later Italian term Slavo aka Slavic) and Schiavoni the inhabitants, they meant the people coming from those two regions. "Citizens" of the Serene Republic initially addressed to serve Venice furnishing galleys plus/or troops, finding employement as marines within the Venetian fleet. Then employed also in the army as well

Why "slaves"? You means "slavery" or "slavicity"
Some slovenes were mercenaries for Venexa, they haden't any obligations to serve Venexa.
As well, some was partisans of Venexa, others prefered to serve the italian bishops or germanic princes.

I answered this above. Btw slavery has nothing to do with them. they were just citizens of a geographical area belonging to Venetian territories overseas aka Istria and Dalmatia. Venetians never used slaves or prisoners in their navy as rowers for example. Just citizens coming from Venetian lagoon directly or coming from mainland or stati da mar