Philosophy and martial arts

[Maiden_Ante]

Hi there! I made a thread about this, which became somewhat confused. I'd like to know if any of you are into martial arts and if any of you follows philosophical concepts or ideas related to any martial art. I myself am into Bushido, whilst trying to go my own way at the same time and be pragmatic.

Bushido question: what do you think, that it should be muga-mushin? I myself don't really agree with muga, though mushin is quite sensible.

[LattiginousWay]

Haven't really looked into philosophy and martial arts until I came across Bruce Lee's Wikipedia article:

Philosophy

Lee is best known as a martial artist, but he also studied drama and philosophy while a student at the University of Washington. He was well-read and had an extensive library. His own books on martial arts and fighting philosophy are known for their philosophical assertions, both inside and outside of martial arts circles. His eclectic philosophy often mirrored his fighting beliefs, though he was quick to claim that his martial arts were solely a metaphor for such teachings. He believed that any knowledge ultimately led to self-knowledge, and said that his chosen method of self-expression was martial arts.[96] His influences include Taoism, Jiddu Krishnamurti, and Buddhism.[97] On the other hand, Lee's philosophy was very much in opposition to the conservative world view advocated by Confucianism.[98] John Little states that Lee was an atheist. He was asked in 1972 what his religious affiliation was, and he replied, "none whatsoever".[99] Also in 1972, he was asked if he believed in God, and he responded, "To be perfectly frank, I really do not".[96]
The following quotations reflect his fighting philosophy.
"Be formless... shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You pour water into a bottle; it becomes the bottle. You put water into a teapot; it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or creep or drip or crash! Be water, my friend..."[100]
"All types of knowledge, ultimately leads to self knowledge"[101]
"Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it".[102]
"Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there".[103]
"Quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough".[104]
"I always learn something, and that is: to always be yourself. And to express yourself, to have faith in yourself. Do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate him".[105]
"It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential".[106]

Seems interesting enough, if not a bit abstract for one who has never studied martial arts...

[Taiji]

They're both parts of the Daoist 'doing nothing' principle. Emptying the mind allows the human to respond more cleanly to external signals, same with discarding selfish goals. Basically if you're thinking of nothing while you fight then you can fight at a higher level.

Perhaps the conscious mind is loosely the 'mind' and the unconsious mind is loosely the 'self'. Both suck at moving your body in response to your senses when compared to the biological mind, so they just get in the way.

But practising 'doing nothing' is a great way to develop internal discipline. And a high level of internal discipline is a great help when training. So perhaps that is the true benefit, or the main one. Since, aside from aptitude and luck, a better trainee becomes a better fighter.

[Maiden_Ante]

Oh sorry, I had given up on this topic since I got no answer. Yes, this whole "empty mind" is something to work on if you're a martial artist. I think Miyamoto Musashi described it perfectly in the "chapter" called Scroll of emptiness. I'd like to add that it's like an artificial anger rush on the opposite side of the scale; instead of becoming blind you see, so to speak. It's really hard to take some martial art-philosophy stuff seriously though, as a person of atheism. Such as the muga-mushin. The mushin concept (empty mind, simply) I have no trouble understanding, but muga? It doesn't fit in, why would the mind be separated from the body, when it's in fact your brain? It's a bit hard to know what to believe and what not to.

[Tyler Durden]

I don't really know what Muga-Mushin is outside of what I just read above, but as an informal practitioner of martial arts, I haveb been keenly interested in the philosophy behind it. I have especially been affected by Bruce Lee, and some of Musashi's applicable teachings; "be water" and "be as a falling leaf" are particular favorites of mine.

I often ask the people I train whether they felt they were thinking too much, or not thinking enough. This is always a difficult question. On the one hand, not thinking generally leads to faster reaction. But on the other hand, thinking tends to lead to improved offensive capability. Ultimately, I have much classified the difference as a question of Defense versus Offense, and Tiger versus Dragon. The Tiger, perceived as the epitome of drilled, choreographed techniques; the Dragon, perceived as highly capable in understanding movement. A person who fits the Tiger persona would do well without thinking, whereas a Dragon would not. Additionally, a Defense oriented fighter must be quick thinking and unfazed by a dauntless offense, thus contributing to them being better unthinking; while an Offense oriented fighter must be elaborate and cunning, operating on an opponents quirks and adapting to their style.

Personally, I'm mediocre at the defensive, and lack any formal training, making it impossible for me to be a Tiger. So I will continue to be aggressive and consider everything in battle.

[thewolflord]

I've often thought about the whole concepts of Bushido and the Empty Mind during my practice (10 years so far). I think another thing to consider is the reason you're learning martial arts. For example, the late but great Professor Sig Kufferath (my Sensei's instructor) said that he liked teaching women more than men because men wanted to learn martial arts to beat people up while women would just say "Teach me." As for me, I'd like to think that I'm learning martial arts to gain better understanding of the art of martial conflict and myself. It's a road that doesn't end until the very end.