Books for learning C and C++

[karamazovmm]

Hey all!

Do you guys know some good stuff for me to learn some good 'ol C stuff? Im trying to prepare for the programmers olympics.

If there is more languages that you want to share go ahead, Im looking for some Kobol stuff too (for job purposes)

[Dewy]

C or C++? They're are completely different. You'll have to go the archives to find stuff on Cobol

[Bolkonsky]

C#'s a good language. The syntax isn't as infuriating as C++ (imo) but it's still very powerful.

Anyway, Sam's are generally great books.

[karamazovmm]

both, Im going back to basics.

C# is not on my plans yet, but if you have some good books do please tell me

[Nietzsche]

I've used this one. Pretty good stuff. I think it does require a little familiarity, but that's just me.

[Dewy]

for C http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Novi...702797&sr=8-11

[ROFL Copter]

There are even youtube videos that can help get you off your feet. I learned a good bit of C++ from only the internet.

[Bolkonsky]

C++ http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-You...8739378&sr=8-9
C# http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-You...8739402&sr=8-3

They're good for a somewhat intermediate programmer.

[Dewy]

I'd stay away from sams. And I'll generally stay an arms length away from C++, horrible language at the best of times. And C#, don't get me wrong I love the idea of it but that's where it shows it's ugly face. It's based on a system programming language but is intended for multi purpose use, so it's neither as good as C or C++ (if you want to torture yourself) for system programming use or as good as an application programming language such as basic for application development.

[Bolkonsky]

What's wrong with Sams? It's definitely not for the new programmer, but I've gotten a lot of use out of it. And while I agree with C++, I think C# is a pretty good alternative. Look what they've done with C# and Unity. That's working out pretty well. I know it's not as powerful as C++, but the syntax makes up for it in my opinion.
C# is superior in my opinion, because:

-It's pretty simple to create decent GUIs, has event driven programming, and can go toe to toe with Vbasic.net for application development.
-For larger -applications (games, etc) the JIT compiling is dynamic (CIL) and can adjust to individual PCs, while C/C++ are unmanaged native languages, so that's not an option.
-Huge class libraries
-Garbage collector (goodbye memory leaks)
-No header files.

[ROFL Copter]

What do you guys have against C++? I'm nothing but an amateur, but its the only language I've learned.

[Dewy]

TWC has stopped me from posting this twice and I have to rewrite it again. So it's a lot shorter this time around.

What's wrong with Sams?

The books are like high school teachers, they tell you what code to write but do a horrible (if any) job at explaining why you do it. IIRC I've seen some horrible code in Sams.

Look what they've done with C# and Unity.

Unity is programmed in C++. C# is just a scripting language used by Unity

-It's pretty simple to create decent GUIs, has event driven programming, and can go toe to toe with Vbasic.net for application development.

vb.net is faster to develop with and they both compile to the CIL. I'll pick vb.net over C# for application development any day.

-For larger -applications (games, etc) the JIT compiling is dynamic (CIL) and can adjust to individual PCs, while C/C++ are unmanaged native languages, so that's not an option.

For most games you'll be using C/C++ anyway i.e OpenGL

-Huge class libraries

C and C++ have more libraries

-Garbage collector (goodbye memory leaks)

There is still memory leaks with garbage collection and added overhead.

-No header files.

Your point being?

What do you guys have against C++? I'm nothing but an amateur, but its the only language I've learned.

It does OOP horribly, and it's not even fully OOP. And generally horrible to use.

[Bolkonsky]

TWC has stopped me from posting this twice and I have to rewrite it again. So it's a lot shorter this time around.
The books are like high school teachers, they tell you what code to write but do a horrible (if any) job at explaining why you do it. IIRC I've seen some horrible code in Sams.

That's sort of true, but the further along you get the more they explain. They're good for people with some knowledge of how programming works before hand.

Unity is programmed in C++. C# is just a scripting language used by Unity

I didn't say it wasn't. It's worked out pretty well, I'm following a couple of indie games that are using it.

vb.net is faster to develop with and they both compile to the CIL. I'll pick vb.net over C# for application development any day.

That entirely depends on what type of application you're developing, and how used to developing apps you are with each language.

For most games you'll be using C/C++ anyway i.e OpenGL

Probably just because C is older and that's what most programmers know. A couple of projects based on C# that leap to mind are Axiom, and Lost Empire: Immortals. I'm sure there'd be more if I looked it up.

C and C++ have more libraries

As much as I enjoy disagreeing with you, I think you're right on this one.

There is still memory leaks with garbage collection and added overhead.

Yeah - If you're the worst at algorithms, then yes, there are. The whole C++ is faster/more efficient might be true if you're running a 10 year old system, but that's about it.

Your point being?

That it's a lot easier and simpler for someone like me to start programming on something without them.

It does OOP horribly, and it's not even fully OOP. And generally horrible to use.

Which is still why everybody uses it. So what would you recommend as a language? Python?

[ROFL Copter]

I may be a little ignorant, but the thing I like about C++ is that it does everything. Nothing well, nothing easily, but it does everything.

[Bolkonsky]

I may be a little ignorant, but the thing I like about C++ is that it does everything. Nothing well, nothing easily, but it does everything.

Correction. You can do anything with it, but it doesn't do everything.

For instance, JIT Compiling? No. Garbage Collection? No.

[Dewy]

That's sort of true, but the further along you get the more they explain. They're good for people with some knowledge of how programming works before hand.

Arh so a syntax reference book disguised as a learning book. What a great point it its favour.

Probably just because C is older and that's what most programmers know. A couple of projects based on C# that leap to mind are Axiom, and Lost Empire: Immortals. I'm sure there'd be more if I looked it up.

Not a lot of games still use C code. Lost Empire uses C++ code (DirectX), I'm not doubting it uses C# for other things.

Yeah - If you're the worst at algorithms, then yes, there are. The whole C++ is faster/more efficient might be true if you're running a 10 year old system, but that's about it.

Err no. Most C# memory leaks come from native APIs which you're bound to use for complex software such as games.

Which is still why everybody uses it. So what would you recommend as a language? Python?

Just because loads of people use it doesn't mean it's good. Look at COD, masses drove to that pathetic game.

Tools are useful for different needs. A spear is great for hunting but you're not going to use it to cut down a tree.

[Bolkonsky]

Arh so a syntax reference book disguised as a learning book. What a great point it its favour.

I get the impression that Mr MM already knows some programming. I can understand how it'd be confusing if it's your first .NET introduction, but I haven't had a problem with it.

Not a lot of games still use C code. Lost Empire uses C++ code (DirectX), I'm not doubting it uses C# for other things.

I'm pretty sure that the engine's C#. I'll have to look into it though. What about Axiom?

Err no. Most C# memory leaks come from native APIs which you're bound to use for complex software such as games.

If you're using pointers, maybe, but then the case could be made that it'd be easier to use a CIL instead of pointers.

[Dewy]

I get the impression that Mr MM already knows some programming. I can understand how it'd be confusing if it's your first .NET introduction, but I haven't had a problem with it.

Sam's teach yourself. I can understand why most people would be confused. People go into reading it to learn programming not because they already know programming.

I'm pretty sure that the engine's C#. I'll have to look into it though. What about Axiom?

The mere fact it's using DirectX 9 to render the game means it's using C++ code. Either as a wrapper or a framework providing access to the DirectX API. I have no idea about Axiom, haven't even heard of it.

If you're using pointers, maybe, but then the case could be made that it'd be easier to use a CIL instead of pointers.

Garbage collection doesn't work for native (unmanaged) APIs, you still have to manage the native (unmanaged) code.

[Bolkonsky]

Sam's teach yourself. I can understand why most people would be confused. People go into reading it to learn programming not because they already know programming.

I can see how the title would be misleading, true.

The mere fact it's using DirectX 9 to render the game means it's using C++ code. Either as a wrapper or a framework providing access to the DirectX API. I have no idea about Axiom, haven't even heard of it.

Axiom's a C# port of Ogre.

Garbage collection doesn't work for native (unmanaged) APIs, you still have to manage the native (unmanaged) code.

I don't know enough about complicated applications and games to comment, so I'll take your word for this.

[mp0295]

Oh I miss my programming days. I used to know a little C++ and PHP. Probably could relearn PHP though in a week.