Get rid of the state/nation states?

[Amorphos]

Get rid of the state/nation states?

Govt should not be like a household that has debts [the national debt] and employs people, they should simply pass laws to allow things to run smoothly and for human rights etc. preferably as few as possible, and make as least as possible difference in the world. I would suggest that the ideal govt would be my pet dog.

There is no need for nations, they are just a cause for potential conflict and limit business dexterity/fluidity. Nation states are the reason why some have much and most have little, we talk to e.g. the Chinese of protectionism and yet the richer nations like USA and Britain own well over half the world.

Get rid of presidents and pm’s, replace them with regional secretaries and have absolutely no power hierarchies beyond that ~ apart from human rights bodies which would benefit from being more global, but make no effect apart from our protection.

[Stark of Winterfell]

You're gonna have to employ a lot of people to enforce those human rights. Sorta like government.

[Amorphos]

You're gonna have to employ a lot of people to enforce those human rights. Sorta like government

Or like the police, where you make it law. …but I take your point, there would need to be bodies [another level to the un perhaps] to look into it and there already are, I don’t see why they need to be part of regional/national govt.

/decentralised versions regulated at a global level.

/doesnt need to be nationalistic.

[Enemy of the State]

You're gonna have to employ a lot of people to enforce those human rights. Sorta like government.

There is a difference between government and state. The state is the monopoly on the use of force. It is the organs of coercion. The police, the military, the courts and so on. The government is simply an administrative body. I'd say there are millions of governments. Every school has a government. Every business. They don't have states behind them, but every country has one government that is in control of the state. You can have government without states.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

There is a difference between government and state. The state is the monopoly on the use of force. It is the organs of coercion. The police, the military, the courts and so on. The government is simply an administrative body. I'd say there are millions of governments. Every school has a government. Every business. They don't have states behind them, but every country has one government that is in control of the state. You can have government without states.

Alright I'd like you to explain how this sitution would be resolved in an anarchist society.

A property developer builds a house. They guarantee their customer that there will be no structural defects for 10 years, and if there are the developer will have to fix them. Within 2 years huge cracks start appearing in the wall, yet when challenged the developer (an incredibly rich company) refuses to make any repairs or pay compensation.

What could the customer, with an income of €50,000 a year, do about this? They might try to ruin the company's reputation, but thinking that will really damage the company is fantasy. Noone will care, people are stupid and don't think. I try to but the stupidity one sees in everyday life is astonishing.

[Amorphos]

^^ There would still be law, the police would be a completely independent body [govt would not be able to make use of them], law is there to protect our freedoms not to enforce the state's diminishing of them. The state undermines rather than underpins our freedoms.

[Enemy of the State]

Alright I'd like you to explain how this sitution would be resolved in an anarchist society.

A property developer builds a house. They guarantee their customer that there will be no structural defects for 10 years, and if there are the developer will have to fix them. Within 2 years huge cracks start appearing in the wall, yet when challenged the developer (an incredibly rich company) refuses to make any repairs or pay compensation.

What could the customer, with an income of €50,000 a year, do about this? They might try to ruin the company's reputation, but thinking that will really damage the company is fantasy. Noone will care, people are stupid and don't think. I try to but the stupidity one sees in everyday life is astonishing.

Umm.. go to court?

[Nietzsche]

I support decentralization. I think the greatest power should be focused toward the individual, not the State. It's good to see you post something like this Q. For a while I was beginning to think you had joined the collectivists.

[Amorphos]

I support decentralization. I think the greatest power should be focused toward the individual, not the State. It's good to see you post something like this Q. For a while I was beginning to think you had joined the collectivists.

Well I think there is a balance between power and accountability, an individual can be just as bad as a state ~ though I am guessing you don’t mean it in that context, but more in terms of individual freedom. Most of my threads are experimental, sometimes it seams the only way to attain balance [in terms of accountability] is through collectivism, but its not the only way.

Mostly I hate councils and the state, both are decentralised and centralised variations on power hierarchies. I fear that the big society could be something like councils, where groups of individuals get to rule over areas like schools, then beaurocracy means the individual doesn’t really get a say ~ even though the idea is meant to let people have a say.

[Denny Crane!]

I must forbear to comment in this soon to be repetitive thread.

Bad Denny! Don't touch.

[Oldgamer]

I must forbear to comment in this soon to be repetitive thread.

Bad Denny! Don't touch.

If thous shalt forebear to comment in this thread, then so shall I. Everyone knows our stand such issues.

Touch not the unclean thing!

[removeduser_4536284751384]

what you're essentially advocating is anarchism then.

Just because services like policing are provided by non-profit bodies doesn't mean it's not anarchism. I don't know what gave you the impression that it isn't.

Get rid of nations states and you remove all the problems which derive from them, think about what that means!

What problems? Apart from taxes and occasional miscarriages of justice I can think of no problems.

[Amorphos]

what you're essentially advocating is anarchism then.

Of course. Or something as near as that as we can genuinely arrive at. Maybe sometime in the future people will actually get it, but I am not holding my hopes up.

Just because services like policing are provided by non-profit bodies doesn't mean it's not anarchism. I don't know what gave you the impression that it isn't.

I initially agree, but being of the state is as bad as being provided by a massive corporation, no? [cant see much difference] they need to be [as do armies of the world] completely independent of anything like the state.

What problems? Apart from taxes and occasional miscarriages of justice I can think of no problems.

Racism and nationalistic prejudice.
Protectionism.
National Centralisation.
Monarchies.
Wars!

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I initially agree, but being of the state is as bad as being provided by a massive corporation, no? [cant see much difference] they need to be [as do armies of the world] completely independent of anything like the state.

Coorporations have an interest in making profit. The state on the other hand has no interests other than the will of its people.

The very point of a state is so that vital services like policing can be carried out effectively without vested interests. States are created as entities independent of any vested interests.

Racism and nationalistic prejudice.
Protectionism.
National Centralisation.
Monarchies.
Wars!

The state here in Ireland is guilty of none of these things.

The state reflects the will of its people anyway, and every single instance you'll find those actions were the will of its people. A state can't think, it does what its people tell it to, even if "its people" are a violent minority imposing their will on the majority.

[Amorphos]

Coorporations have an interest in making profit. The state on the other hand has no interests other than the will of its people.

Has an interest in itself.

The very point of a state is so that vital services like policing can be carried out effectively without vested interests. States are created as entities independent of any vested interests.

They are a vested interest, that’s the whole problem with them. We are in a recession because the state under labour [a perceived socialist party] collaborated with the banks and other nation states in a manner of theirs and not the peoples interests.

The state here in Ireland is guilty of none of these things.

Agreed, but surely have been subject to them! see my point!

The state reflects the will of its people anyway, and every single instance you'll find those actions were the will of its people. A state can't think, it does what its people tell it to, even if "its people" are a violent minority imposing their will on the majority.

I don’t think it does, it only does what it thinks the people want as per its own needs. The state does think, it thinks via the govt, get rid of that relationship and the people can get involved.

..as long as it is done in the right way.
the internet is a socialism but has no one like a state telling it what to do.

[Basil II the B.S]

Racism and nationalistic prejudice.
Protectionism.
National Centralisation.
Monarchies.
Wars!

Half of them were around before nation-states.
Also, in Europe we currently have Nation-states, and the ''worst'' you could find from that list are constitutional monarchies.
We haven't had wars in 60 years, protectionism is at his lowest in history, national centralisation thank god backfired and killed the Soviet Union, I'd concede there is some racism rising due to the immigration issue, but it's definitely not as big as in the past, and honestly racial prejudice is way bigger in the US than in nation-states Europe.
In conclusion, I don't really think those things are strictly related to nation-states.

[Eskali]

Get rid of the state/nation states?

Govt should not be like a household that has debts [the national debt] and employs people, they should simply pass laws to allow things to run smoothly and for human rights etc. preferably as few as possible, and make as least as possible difference in the world. I would suggest that the ideal govt would be my pet dog.

There is no need for nations, they are just a cause for potential conflict and limit business dexterity/fluidity. Nation states are the reason why some have much and most have little, we talk to e.g. the Chinese of protectionism and yet the richer nations like USA and Britain own well over half the world.

Get rid of presidents and pm’s, replace them with regional secretaries and have absolutely no power hierarchies beyond that ~ apart from human rights bodies which would benefit from being more global, but make no effect apart from our protection.

Good luck when another nation invades you, or deliberatly seeks to economically trump you.

[Vir Triumphalis]

Anarchy, Confederation, etc. will never work just like the USA under the Articles of Confederation only lasted for a decade

[removeduser_487563287433]

God I wish you lot would learn what a nation, a state and a nation state actually are.

[Vir Triumphalis]

God I wish you lot would learn what a nation, a state and a nation state actually are.

I hope your not pointing to me.