Negative morale bonus

**a-woowie.doowie** · February 24, 2011, 11:37 AM

This is more of a question asked to the whole RTW-game, but I post it here since this seems to be one of the best mods where people help eachother out.

So my question follows; If a general in command should have morale bonuses which are negative - what happens if he dies? Would the soldiers still route faster? Would they fight better?(lol) Would they keep going as if nothing happened?

**chris10** · February 24, 2011, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by a-woowie.doowie

This is more of a question asked to the whole RTW-game, but I post it here since this seems to be one of the best mods where people help eachother out.

So my question follows; If a general in command should have morale bonuses which are negative - what happens if he dies? Would the soldiers still route faster? Would they fight better?(lol) Would they keep going as if nothing happened?

when he dies the penalty is removed from units and they are back to their normal default morale without penalty hence fight "better"

**a-woowie.doowie** · February 24, 2011, 12:37 PM

Sweet!

Thanks for the quick reply! +rep

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · February 26, 2011, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by chris10

when he dies the penalty is removed from units and they are back to their normal default morale without penalty hence fight "better"

Haha in that case it seems more reasonable to not bring the general at all and simply let him live happily as a governor.

**chris10** · February 26, 2011, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by |Sith|Galvanized Iron

Haha in that case it seems more reasonable to not bring the general at all and simply let him live happily as a governor.

seriously ?

.....I thought it was pretty obvious but as the question arose

**Ferdiad** · February 24, 2011, 05:40 PM

What does the Generals death give in -morale I wonder.

**chris10** · February 24, 2011, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ferdiad

What does the Generals death give in -morale I wonder.

Read with care...Generals can have 0 command stars and 2 or 3 different trais giving -1 or -2 morale for all troops on the battlefield hence will give negative bonus to their troops when in battle...when they die this penalty is removed and units will have their default morale value

**Ferdiad** · February 24, 2011, 06:46 PM

Troops route easier when generals die, It even says so "demoralised by generals death" or something like that.I think you need to read what I said.

**a-woowie.doowie** · February 24, 2011, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ferdiad

Troops route easier when generals die, It even says so "demoralised by generals death" or something like that.I think you need to read what I said.

But are you sure that these generals doesn't have any command stars or any morale penalties?

By the way, the easiest way(in my opinion) to win against Hannibal, is to have one's mercenary slingers targeting him until he dies. Before his death - the battle is more or less a stalemate since cavalry doesn't have that overpowered route effect(which is good of course).

It makes a huge diffrence to what morale bonuses/penalties a general has, it seems as even a captains death has this remarkable effect to start a chain-route(if surrounded or charged) when they otherwise wouldn't have routed.

**chris10** · February 24, 2011, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ferdiad

Troops route easier when generals die, It even says so "demoralised by generals death" or something like that.I think you need to read what I said.

...now that you said that...yours was some sort of question...I read it in a different way...nevermind....AFAIK there is no reliable info on what you asked but its certain that the death of the general gives a moral shock in a certain radius around him which decreases over time until it reaches 0...

Originally Posted by a-woowie.doowie

By the way, the easiest way(in my opinion) to win against Hannibal, is to have one's mercenary slingers targeting him until he dies. Before his death - the battle is more or less a stalemate since cavalry doesn't have that overpowered route effect(which is good of course).

killing AI generals is cheat and makes the battles boring and everything but challenging...
each command star gives +1 morale/attack/defense in a certain radius (to lazy to write down the formula) around the General...

**Ferdiad** · February 24, 2011, 08:36 PM

Heres the formula "30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence"

**Grimlin** · February 25, 2011, 03:34 AM

Are you guys sure that default morale is not calculated before the battle starts? I've never ever seen enemy units fighting better after the general was dead. The morale shock is already pretty big, no matter how good or bad a general was and I'm certain that overall morale is lowered aswell. The same goes for routing generals, the penalty is smaller but still there.
And no, killing AI generals is no cheat (ok with slingers it is). If possible I catch them with infantry or whatever means possible and as of now the game has not been boring or less challenging for me. What I consider boring and dull however is to adjust my playing style in 1000 ways to react to AI shortcomings.

**chris10** · February 25, 2011, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Grimlin

Are you guys sure that default morale is not calculated before the battle starts? I've never ever seen enemy units fighting better after the general was dead.

yes Iam sure...morale is a dynamic value during battle...and of course you can not see a big difference if a unit gets a morale penalty from -2 removed but the difference is there...

**Grimlin** · February 25, 2011, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by chris10

yes Iam sure...morale is a dynamic value during battle...and of course you can not see a big difference if a unit gets a morale penalty from -2 removed but the difference is there...

I've already thought of tests when posting earlier, unfortunately a big morale penalty makes the enemy run away too early xD
Maybe I'll try some stuff later when I'm home from work.

**naq** · February 25, 2011, 04:03 AM

I always see enemy rout faster when their generals die, no matter how good those generals are.

I think there is some sort of penalty when the general is killed/ rout. Having a bad commander in command is surely better than no one at all.

**chris10** · February 25, 2011, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Grimlin

I've already thought of tests when posting earlier, unfortunately a big morale penalty makes the enemy run away too early xD
Maybe I'll try some stuff later when I'm home from work.

This is no way to test what I said...
Roman Triarii have a morale of 23...there is no way to test if they loose or gain 2 morale or if they recover from a negative morale influence given by the general or the morale shock cause of his death...these are internal calculations running in the source code during battle...

My statemet is the sum of different interviews and statements given by CA employes during 2004/2005 in the TW.org...

**Grimlin** · February 25, 2011, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by chris10

This is no way to test what I said...
Roman Triarii have a morale of 23...there is no way to test if they loose or gain 2 morale or if they recover from a negative morale influence given by the general or the morale shock cause of his death...these are internal calculations running in the source code during battle...

My statemet is the sum of different interviews and statements given by CA employes during 2004/2005 in the TW.org...

If I give a general all traits that reduce troop morale the effect is pretty big. Usually troops rout even by mere presence of enemy infantry closeby. In this test case I kill the enemy general before my main line attacks and even with the morale shock involved their fighting ability should improve if you are correct. If not they will still rout.
Also possible is to wait for their morale to rebound or countless other possibilities.

**Ferdiad** · February 25, 2011, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Grimlin

Are you guys sure that default morale is not calculated before the battle starts? I've never ever seen enemy units fighting better after the general was dead. The morale shock is already pretty big, no matter how good or bad a general was and I'm certain that overall morale is lowered aswell. The same goes for routing generals, the penalty is smaller but still there.
And no, killing AI generals is no cheat (ok with slingers it is). If possible I catch them with infantry or whatever means possible and as of now the game has not been boring or less challenging for me. What I consider boring and dull however is to adjust my playing style in 1000 ways to react to AI shortcomings.

Killing the Enemy general is a cheat because the AI is stupid enough to charge him at your lines and get him killed in the first minute of the battle.

**dvk901** · February 25, 2011, 10:52 AM

There are actually two different kinds of morale bonuses in RTW that a general can have......one that affects units within a certain radius of him, and one that affects all troops in the army. So it's pretty hard to tell which is which, and as Chris10 said, these are all dynamic during the battle. So putting a General, for example, near a group of units that are faltering 'may' improve their morale, 'if' the General has that kind of bonus.

**a-woowie.doowie** · February 26, 2011, 04:11 PM

I won't say I'm not a cheater if that is what a cheater is. But I will however say that it is not something I usually do, but the reason I did it against Hannibal is because my first roman campaign got corrupted, thus I had to start a new one. Since the first battle(first campaign) against Hannibal took a great deal of time - I thought of skipping it and therefore killing Hannibal. The result was pretty shocking though, I know that good generals pushes their men to their limits but I've never seen such a diffrence ever. My tactic in the first battle was to flank them and so on, but since Hannibal was alive, there wasn't a single unit routing no matter how many they lost, how outnumbered they were or how much I recharged them with cavalary. I used the same tactic in the 2nd fight because - well I obviously won the first one - this time the moment Hannibal was killed by my lame slingers, a chain route was born. Never seen that sort of influence anywhere - pretty realistic though since Hannibal pretty much was the only thing keeping his central line from routing at Cannae(from what I've heard).