Aztec map problem

[Aurelius Maximus]

The idea to include the aztecs could make things interesting, but imo they shouldnt because if you include the aztecs you would have to also include all the other native american factions of the time plus, america was discovered in 1492 around the time when the time period of MIITW ends, so whats the point? plus, is this how the map is going to look like? at least part of India would be in it.



I actually wouldnt mind this map, but what about the rest of north america which wasnt under aztec control? its bigger than europe itself!

anyways, i dont think this is how they're going to do the map at all, i just made it to show how empty the rest of america would be if they only had the aztecs as the only american faction.

[Gogoas]

i'm thinking they would keep the aztecs on a completely different map altogether tho

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

i'm thinking they would keep the aztecs on a completely different map altogether tho

Actually I've read in some preview that they'll include it in the campaign map - it says something like "sail towards south america once you have discovered the necessary technology" - the idea should just be dropped.
There are many definitions when the middle ages ended, ranging from 1453 (fall of constaninople) to 1500something (letterpress invented) - my personal one is 1492, the discovery of San Salvador and Cuba.

[GambleFish]

Obivously they will not include everything on one map - that would be utter madness, and the map would be too huge - Europe would be way too small, which defeats the purpose of a medieval game. They will either have a seperate campaign for the Aztecs, or will have a whole map just for the Americas, and then of course the standard Medieval map.

[Spiff]

The argument in saying "the aztecs werent significant until this date" is irrelevant, point of the game is to allow you to reshape history, not be lead by the hand. If you want to take a fleet of ships to the Americas, then you can - because someone did.. the exact date doesnt matter, only whether it was feasible in reality at a given point

[Roman-Warrior]

That is their plan, I do think I remember them mentioning 2 different campaigns, a new world campaign and ofcoarse a Medeival campaign.

-Wes

[Diomedes]

I reckon they should leave the Aztecs for an expansion MTW:II or something like that.

[Obershutze]

I reckon they should leave the Aztecs for an expansion MTW:II or something like that.

That would have been unusual considering all expansions end with "Invasion", usually the invasion of the continent of the basic game; Viking Invasion, Barbarian Invasion etc... since America would be the new continent, it couldn't be invaded by anyone exept the Spanish, and then how will you call it? "Spanish Invasion"? "European Invasion"?

The inclusion of the Aztecs could be good, it just depends how it is implemented.

[LegionnaireX]

They should put it on another campaign map. You could be given the option of "discovering america" and then it puts you through a load screen into the next map. The only problem there is what the heck happens to your country back home during those years?

It will be interesting to see how CA handles this because seeing unpurportionall (eg. mexico brushing the southern shore of spain) continents and seas would just be an eye sore.

[hsimoorb]

Do you know how boring conquring the aztecs would be? You'd have 100 spanish conquistadores, that would have guns, pikes, horses, plate armour, steel swords, cannons, and immune systems. The aztecs would think your gods anyways too. So you'd take your squad up to Teohituacan(sp?) kill the emperor and claim the land in the name of spain...the end. I preempt CA's attempt to make that title. I boycott Aztec Invasion before they even get thier dirty little minds on it.

[The True Roman]

Do you know how boring conquring the aztecs would be? You'd have 100 spanish conquistadores, that would have guns, pikes, horses, plate armour, steel swords, cannons, and immune systems. The aztecs would think your gods anyways too. So you'd take your squad up to Teohituacan(sp?) kill the emperor and claim the land in the name of spain...the end. I preempt CA's attempt to make that title. I boycott Aztec Invasion before they even get thier dirty little minds on it.

Cortez had 10,000 Conquistadores when he took on the aztecs. (small fries when compared to the aztec numbers) CA wont make that part of the game pointless like you make it out to be. I just want to see how the aztecs will control. Will they be like the other factions cause i realy dont think the Aztecs fought like the Europeans do.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I really don't think it will be a different campaign map. I would guess the map will only become available (or visible) after a certain date, much like an important historical event in RTW which then would allow cross-oceanic exploration. One of the major problems with RTW was that after conquering 20 or so settlements players became so bored that they gave up. I am sure that CA addressed this problem possibly by adding some interesting campaign events to keep players glued to the game for the whole time period. eg crusades, discovery of America etc.. CA have always been very good at great gameplay (and bugs).

Something else CA also said in a earlier interview that only Central and South America will in included in the extended campaign map so there may very well be only the one Aztec faction (and rebels?).

http://www.totalwar.com/community/medieval2.htm

[k_raso]

The image on the 1st. post showing where the Aztecs lived is unaccurate. The Aztecs were in the area on this map:



See the area in green, in what today is Mexico. The area marked on the map on the first post correspond to the area in which actually the Mayans lived.

BTW, the popular knowledge that states that only 200 Spaniards knocked down the entire Aztec Empire is a complete mith. Perhaps the people that say that, should read more about Hernan Cortez and his forces, specially about the people of Tlaxcala and the Tlaxcaltecs, also about Smallpox, and about the "Sad Night" or "Noche Triste"...

Not that i`m for the inclusion of the Aztecs on this game, but the ignorance that is showed by some writers in this forum about the Precolombine history in Mesoamerica is appalling , and deserve pretty harder replies than mine.

Bye.

PS: Photo source and credits, : http://www.pais-global.com.ar/mapas/mapa35.htm

[2ltben]

I think it's safe to say that the 510*510 bane of campaign mappers is gone. That or Europe has been condensed to a 25*25 tile area.

*edit*
Cortes also had over 100,000 native allies fighting against the Aztecs, and it still was very difficult fighting because wounding Aztec warriors doesn't work, you either have to kill them or take off a leg to get them out of the fight.

[Chuffy]

In my opinion there is no way the inclusion of the Aztecs can work or be any good. This is MEDIEVAL Total War, it's supposed to focus on Medieval nations and conflicts. All this new world junk doesn't fit and even by the end of the game the Americas hadn't been colonised heavily at all. Including the Aztecs and then Central American rebels means that the Aztecs will have nothing to do and the European side of the game will be sorely lacking.

And don't say you are supposed to write your own history, if we take that view I can decide to take muskets in the 11th century....I'M MAKING MY OWN HISTORY! Oh look, TANKS FOR THE BRITISH! DON'T WORRY, I'M MAKING MY OWN HISTORY!

[Spiff]

In my opinion there is no way the inclusion of the Aztecs can work or be any good. This is MEDIEVAL Total War, it's supposed to focus on Medieval nations and conflicts. All this new world junk doesn't fit and even by the end of the game the Americas hadn't been colonised heavily at all. Including the Aztecs and then Central American rebels means that the Aztecs will have nothing to do and the European side of the game will be sorely lacking.

And don't say you are supposed to write your own history, if we take that view I can decide to take muskets in the 11th century....I'M MAKING MY OWN HISTORY! Oh look, TANKS FOR THE BRITISH! DON'T WORRY, I'M MAKING MY OWN HISTORY!

If youd listened you would have noticed i stipulated that you should make your history within what as actualy feasible within the timeframe, if youd rather play a game where you cant invade a certain country because it didnt happen in reality then fine. The inclusion of the Americas for better or worse is an attempt to bring a new dimension to a game which has essentialy already been done, you cant fault CA for that, and its foolish to assume it would limit the depth of the medieval nations in Europe

[Chuffy]

and its foolish to assume it would limit the depth of the medieval nations in Europe

How would it not limit the depth of the European nations?

[Spiff]

because... wait, what are you asking? I cant possibly see how it would affect the development time or the amount of actions possible with any of the other factions

[Chuffy]

because... wait, what are you asking? I cant possibly see how it would affect the development time or the amount of actions possible with any of the other factions

It makes the European side of the game a lot weaker than it could be. Theres plenty of oppertunities to include more European factions to represent the political situation at the time (especially in the barren east) but instead CA decide to add in a Faction that will only see action in the ending years of the game (1492-1530) and as a playable faction will be incredibly boring.

Who said it's supposed to be focus purely on Medieval nations and conflicts? The title of the game? What's stopping CA from throwing in an Empire that existed during the Medieval Era? A title? Huh? What? Frankly the game IS focused on European factions (you'll notice there's oh, about 20 of them compared to 1 Central American faction) and it will more than likely focus on European conquests. If anything the Aztec's appear to be a side show, something to conquer for the extra boost in trade.

Considering the Aztecs started to fight the Spanish outside of the Medieval era I'm not sure why they are included in a Medieval game.

Wait, you mean in OUR history the Americas weren't heavily colonized until 1580? Last time I checked, Denmark didn't conquer the entire whole of the Europe by 1248 either, but in my game of Medieval: Total War it did. If the circumstances provide the opportunities, factions can do things that didn't really happen in history. Conquering the Aztecs before or after they were conquered in reality is a possibility that doesn't detract from anything.

Yes but you have to set boundries as to what is changeable history-wise in the game and remember, the Aztecs aren't going to be able to interact with anyone else until the Americas are revealed by some sort of event. This event will most likely occur in 1492...how many people are going to play for that long? Basicially the oppertunity for someone else to conquer the Aztecs, or the Aztecs to survive will happen too late in the game to be important.

[RazorOutlaw]

In my opinion there is no way the inclusion of the Aztecs can work or be any good. This is MEDIEVAL Total War, it's supposed to focus on Medieval nations and conflicts.

Who said it's supposed to be focus purely on Medieval nations and conflicts? The title of the game? What's stopping CA from throwing in an Empire that existed during the Medieval Era? A title? Huh? What? Frankly the game IS focused on European factions (you'll notice there's oh, about 20 of them compared to 1 Central American faction) and it will more than likely focus on European conquests. If anything the Aztec's appear to be a side show, something to conquer for the extra boost in trade.

All this new world junk doesn't fit and even by the end of the game the Americas hadn't been colonised heavily at all. Including the Aztecs and then Central American rebels means that the Aztecs will have nothing to do and the European side of the game will be sorely lacking.

Wait, you mean in OUR history the Americas weren't heavily colonized until 1580? Last time I checked, Denmark didn't conquer the entire whole of the Europe by 1248 either, but in my game of Medieval: Total War it did. If the circumstances provide the opportunities, factions can do things that didn't really happen in history. Conquering the Aztecs before or after they were conquered in reality is a possibility that doesn't detract from anything.

And don't say you are supposed to write your own history, if we take that view I can decide to take muskets in the 11th century....I'M MAKING MY OWN HISTORY! Oh look, TANKS FOR THE BRITISH! DON'T WORRY, I'M MAKING MY OWN HISTORY!

It's been said so many times before that I'm surprised you resort to this..erm, argument. CA lays the foundations of history as it was at a certain date and let's the players go from there. So technically in the game you CAN write your own history with ERMPH MUSKETS IN THE 11th CENUTRY HHRHRGHGHGHGHGHG if you really wanted to.