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Thread: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy) - for Vanilla & RR/RC version - 3.1 version added

  1. #1
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy) - for Vanilla & RR/RC version - 3.1 version added

    Hi

    Inspired by a request in the StSt forums iīve made "Carl - the Taxman" available for TATW too. Thanks to k/t for his request.

    Whatīs that - Carl for Middle-earth?
    It will replace the "old" AI-money/economy script with a new one and will give the AI a construction bonus. The AI wonīt be able to recruit new units while being bankrupt and their settlements will be developed all the time. In fact the AI treasury will be frozen at a very low amount so the AI canīt afford new units and the construction costs will be as low so the AI can develop their settlements. The factions will be able to recruit more units as soon as they have enough money/income again.

    So - will Carl add some more stack spamming because the buildings are almost for free for the AI?
    No - not really. Perhaps the first few turns the AI will spend some more money on units, but with the progress of Your campaign the AI will spend most money on upkeep costs anyway. In the end Carl doesnīt add any money to the AI he just keeps them from going completely bankrupt. You will have more stack spamming with an "usual" add-money-money script which will give the AI endless money and so endless units.

    I just read kings_purse here and kings_purse there - thatīs unfair!?
    The kings_purse part is just for Carl to know when he has to be "active" - the AI has no benefit of it. So donīt worry.

    Orcnose? Youīre kidding me!
    This is a small addition which replaces the "old" script for helping the weakened factions. Now this one is highly dynamic and works more than one time a game. It should be much harder to eleminate AI factions with this one. Iīm curious if another AI-faction ever will make that happen.
    They donīt get any help if they have more than 5 settlements. If they loose some then they will get help depending on the settlements they have left. Starting with little help and becoming stronger the smaller their faction get.

    Installation:
    Just copy the extracted data folder into Your TATW folder. The required files will be overwritten and there will be another folder "Carl_backup" to undo the changes if You donīt like it. (You should see it after extraction)

    The Files:
    For 3.1: Hmm - Choose "Carl for Middle Earth 3.1" - No Orcnose available
    For 2.1: Choose either "Carl for Middle earth 2.1" or "Carl with Orcnose 2.1"
    For 1.41 RR/RC: Choose the other file. - No Orcnose available, too

    Compability:
    Itīs not savegame compatible. You will have to start a new game to feel the power of Carl. Itīs compatible with any submod that doesnīt change the campaign_script or the EDB (Add new events, new units, changed buildings, etc. I guess most "bigger" submods will do so - so thereīs unfortunately no compability)

    Thanks to anyone who used and supported Carl so far. Thanks in advance to anyone who will unleash him in Middle-earth.

    Have fun and a nice day

    Credits:
    - Minas Moth for providing all the files and data entries i needed
    - Hero of the West for the nice and fruitfull discussion about this one

    Changelog:
    - changed Eriador/Arnor help because under some (in fact just one) circumstances Arnor could end up weaker than Eriador before
    - changed the Mordor help a bit to prevent a possible crash

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Fred Putz; February 04, 2012 at 07:00 AM. Reason: 3.1 version added
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
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    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  2. #2
    Hero of the West's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    sounds really interesting could you perhaps link this to the place you got it from? and if it works out for me , may i add it to the MOS submod?" have a nice day HotW

  3. #3

    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    it means that we are able to do an economic war against AI ?
    Sounds great , will solve the wierd problem that AI with just one settlement apears with a full-stacked troops ...

  4. #4
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Thank You for the reply.

    Erm - it came straight out of my head. So itīs hard to give any link. Got some help from Gigantus, because i was new to scripting when i did it - and there were many questions, try-outs that didnīt work, etc. I guess everyone who starts with it knows what i mean.

    Hereīs a link to the resource - but be sure to add in the AI-Contruction bonus that it works the way it should. There are some links to the StSt submods in my signature. Iīd recommend the RR/RC Thread, because thatīs the one i did first and there are some ideas i had before if You are interested.

    Feel free to add it in any submod if You think it could be a nice addition.

    Edit:
    it means that we are able to do an economic war against AI ?
    Yes it should be that way. Just remember so many fullstacks of one settlement-nations when i last played TATW too.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  5. #5
    Hero of the West's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    i'll have to test this to make sure it doesn't make TATW to easy.. the money scripts are actually in so that the enemy is beefed up a bit.. now i want to no longer have stackspam.. so i don't want the game to go soft on me.. but i also want a healthy ai.. does this mod test out like this? or can you now just overrun the enemy?

  6. #6
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Of course You should test it a bit to compare it with the AI-Performance before.

    i will need the campaign_script and the EDB for an upload - just attach both in a reply.
    I donīt know the moneyscript of TATW atm - or Yours if it is changed. For me boosting the AI nations by giving them endless money is a way - but perhaps not the most interesting gameplay.

    With Carl they wonīt get any added money if their economy is healthy. Due to the reduced building costs they will have the one or other stack too much before they went bankrupt. If You want them to have more income - just give them more boni/kings_purse at gamestart so they will have more money for more stacks/units in general. Doing it via kings_purse is a good way, because it doesnīt depend on settlement ownership.

    or can you now just overrun the enemy?
    I did it that way before too, so the AI couldnīt recruit those stacks with the added money.

    With Carl itīs just a question of the income of the AI nations. If i destroy a fullstack they will have less to spend on upkeep and could recruit new units if they were bankrupt before and if they donīt have "too many" of them.
    Last edited by Fred Putz; February 23, 2011 at 07:37 AM.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  7. #7
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    it looks interesting
    Last edited by Minas Moth; February 23, 2011 at 08:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    hi fred, i'm hero's test guy... here you have campaign script and edb from my vanilly..hope to get them soon to start testing
    Last edited by Minas Moth; April 22, 2011 at 03:54 AM.

  9. #9
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Wow - thatīs fast. The ones are the 2.1 vanilla files? Just asking because the money_dept_script is split into 3 parts and 2 of them are not in the "index of contents" at the start of the file.

    Ok will add the file here as an attachment, because iīm not 100% sure if those are the 2.1 vanilla files. Will add them to the first post as soon as i get a reply.

    Changes to the "vanilla version":
    - added construction bonus in the EDB
    - deleted the add_money part of the MONEY SCRIPT
    - deleted the MONEY DEPT SCRIPT, LOSING MONEY SCRIPT and the TOO MUCH MONEY SCRIPT and...
    - ...replaced them with Carl (to be found in the MONEY DEPT SCRIPT part)
    Last edited by Fred Putz; February 23, 2011 at 09:01 AM.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  10. #10
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    well i do use Taro_M's mod (gondorian units so it may be somethind different)... however if it shows as necessity i will reinstall clean 2.1 version, it's no big deal...

  11. #11
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Hmm so at least the EDB is changed (units have to be recruited in some building). No clou if that submod also changes the campaign_script - probably not, but iīm not sure.

    Would be very kind if someone could upload clean files - just saw in the poll(s) that most are playing "vanilla" 2.1, so thereīs no need to reinstall something i guess. Just donīt want to add Carl in everyoneīs individual installation.

    Thanks in advance.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  12. #12
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Sorry for that but it's the cleanest version i have... I have to inform you that game works, so far no crashes... so you have it compatible with taro's mod also... that's a plus, you did it once, you won't have to do it again... well, if no one will upload you clean files, i will... just pm me...

    no it doesn't change campaign script at all, it only adds additional units...

  13. #13
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Ok - so just the 2.1 EDB is missing.

    Problem if i upload for all/at least many submods: What if they will be updated?
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  14. #14
    Hero of the West's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Putz View Post
    Ok - so just the 2.1 EDB is missing.

    Problem if i upload for all/at least many submods: What if they will be updated?
    if you upload for MOS , it will be included tested and if working properly and gameplay enhancing , also added so you would never update as well, you would be named in the credit list with a link to your mod

  15. #15
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hero of the West View Post
    if you upload for MOS , it will be included tested and if working properly and gameplay enhancing , also added so you would never update as well, you would be named in the credit list with a link to your mod
    Thatīs the thing i meant. Uploading it once for any bigger or much played mod is no problem at all. But updating everything later would be a bit too much. Doing so for the Vanilla version is ok (would still need the EDB...)
    i'm hero's test guy
    So testing shouldnīt be a big problem.

    Main features will work with any mod: AI-treasuries will be frozen if they are bankrupt (so they canīt recruit more units) and their settlements will be developed all the time. Ok donīt know enough about the AI traits and ancillaries here - if there are many bad traits for AI-construction costs the values have to be adjusted that they never fall below 100. You will also know "how" bankrupt they are, because the factions will have a counter that tells how much additional king_purse they get every turn. 1 in the counter = 1000 kings_purse. I guess for TATW that feature isnīt needed - for StSt too atm. An idea was to "kill" the stacks they have to much by comparing the upkeep costs with the counter - hmm yes itīs still an idea and i think it will stay an idea.

    Factions will have some bigger treasuries the first turns, because they donīt really need money for the buildings. Thatīs no problem at all , because the AI recruits units depending on their income not their treasury. There will be a point the AI doesnīt care any more and starts wasting all their money they have (on units) till they are bankrupt. I guess this will be if they have a negative balance anyway and this will be the time when they have more units than they can afford. After they went bankrupt and recovered by the time (by loosing the units) they wonīt have that high treasuries any more (most likely - sometimes they will). At least thatīs the way it goes with StSt.

    I guess there are some opinions needed if this is gameplay enhancing - on the one hand there will be the possibility for economic warfare, a more reasonable amount of AI units and by the time fully developed AI-settlements, but on the other hand they wonīt have endless money and couldnīt recruit endless units. For me i would go for first points, but perhaps some TATW player like it the way it is. Itīs a fantasy game in the end.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    here you go Fred... now we are even... i had to install clean TATW 2.1 hehe, hope it's ok this time... salute
    Last edited by Minas Moth; February 26, 2011 at 03:43 AM.

  17. #17
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy)

    Wow - thank You so much. Will rep You once again of course - just have to wait a bit.

    Edit: uploaded Carl for 2.1 - just had to edit the EDB. The campaign_script was already finished.
    Last edited by Fred Putz; February 25, 2011 at 08:22 AM.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

    Donīt forget to check out these Mods sooner or later:
    Shizoku no Senso - 1648 - Conquer the World


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  18. #18
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy) - for 2.1 & RR/RC version

    great, glad to help... +rep

  19. #19
    Mikail Mengsk's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy) - for 2.1 & RR/RC version

    That's really interesting!!!
    It's only after you have lost everything, that you are free to do anything.

  20. #20
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Carl for Middle-earth (AI economy) - for 2.1 & RR/RC version - now with (beta) Orcnose addition!

    Thank You very much.

    Iīve just uploaded the brandnew Orcnose Addition for 2.1 as a beta. Itīs still untested - but if You want to give it a try: There it is.

    Good Luck!

    Thanks to Minas Moth once again - without You it wouldnīt be finished that fast.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

    Donīt forget to check out these Mods sooner or later:
    Shizoku no Senso - 1648 - Conquer the World


    RockīnīRoll!

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