Reach/Sword Or Spear?

**Isack Citees** · February 21, 2011, 09:08 PM

Do spear units in game receive a reach bonus compared to sword or one-handed axemen to compensate for their extra killing range?
I found this article:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-448579.html

It makes sense to me that one-on-one the sword wins, but that in massed formation spears do because of their superior reach, that is, being able to point multiple ranks of spear tips at the enemy.
Which brings up the question...
...Sword or Spear?

**rrgg** · February 21, 2011, 09:33 PM

Ideally you would want both, a spear or other polearm as your main weapon and a sword as a sidearm (or if you were poor you might only be able to afford a small axe or a long knife).

The 13th century King's Mirror has this to say on the subject.

If you are fighting on foot in a land battle and are placed at the point of a wedge-shaped column, it is very important to watch the closed shield line in the first onset, lest it become disarranged or broken. Take heed never to bind the front edge of your shield under that of another. You must also be specially careful, when in the battle line, never to throw your spear, unless you have two, for in battle array on land one spear is more effective than two swords.

**Isack Citees** · February 22, 2011, 05:27 AM

so if one spear beats two swords, then why do most spearmen in game have a lower attack than swordsmen?

**Caesar Clivus** · February 22, 2011, 05:29 AM

Because spears deliver less energy to an opponent in an attack than swords do.

**Point Blank** · February 22, 2011, 07:15 AM

The attack values are a combination of the weapon's ability to hit the target then penetrate armor, and the skill of the attacker.

Spears have less scope for skill than a sword, and their base defense is lower, but they have a relatively fast attack animation, and they get a +2 shield bonus to represent their employment of shields in a close formation. The low defense and high shield value is mean to depict that they are effective head-on, but if attacked from the flanks are much easier to beat.

Also in SS, spears have the light_spear attribute rather than spear, which means they are less effective versus cavalry but better versus infantry. Spear units also have a unit radius of 0.3m rather than 0.4, which means they can form a closer formation in depth. Good quality spear units also have a 1m unit spacing so have more men fighting on a given frontage than a sword formation.

They are somewhat inherently defensive in their animation set.

All these factors interact to make spears fairly effective versus both infantry and cavalry. Good spear units are very tough (eg Papal Guard), though these are relatively rare.

Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus

Because spears deliver less energy to an opponent in an attack than swords do.

Often true, but it delivered it to a point. I really wish we had the lethality value activated in the EDU.

**Isack Citees** · February 22, 2011, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

The attack values are a combination of the weapon's ability to hit the target then penetrate armor, and the skill of the attacker.

Spears have less scope for skill than a sword, and their base defense is lower, but they have a relatively fast attack animation, and they get a +2 shield bonus to represent their employment of shields in a close formation. The low defense and high shield value is mean to depict that they are effective head-on, but if attacked from the flanks are much easier to beat.

Also in SS, spears have the light_spear attribute rather than spear, which means they are less effective versus cavalry but better versus infantry. Spear units also have a unit radius of 0.3m rather than 0.4, which means they can form a closer formation in depth. Good quality spear units also have a 1m unit spacing so have more men fighting on a given frontage than a sword formation.

They are somewhat inherently defensive in their animation set.

All these factors interact to make spears fairly effective versus both infantry and cavalry. Good spear units are very tough (eg Papal Guard), though these are relatively rare.

Explanation is good enough for me

**guyverlance** · February 22, 2011, 07:15 AM

so who wins?

**Point Blank** · February 22, 2011, 07:44 AM

Usually sword beats spears 1v1, but in those circumstances the sword unit tends to be able to attack some of the spears on the flanks. In a solid line, spearmen are quite a lot tougher.

**SirRobin** · February 22, 2011, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Usually sword beats spears 1v1,

So, does:

Swordsman (attack: 5, defence: 5, shield: 5)

beat

Spearman (attack: 5, defence: 5, shield: 5)

in a fight on level ground, both fully rested, no initial charge or other imbalance?

**Point Blank** · February 22, 2011, 11:18 AM

Because those stats are modified by attributes such as light_spear and the animation set.

**Andytheplatypus** · February 22, 2011, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Isack Citees

Do spear units in game receive a reach bonus compared to sword or one-handed axemen to compensate for their extra killing range?
I found this article:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-448579.html

It makes sense to me that one-on-one the sword wins, but that in massed formation spears do because of their superior reach, that is, being able to point multiple ranks of spear tips at the enemy.
Which brings up the question...
...Sword or Spear?

Its not only stats that you have to look at but during the medieval period spears were a very cheap weapon to produce. Swords on the other hand were not. Generally speaking those who could afford a sword usually had time to train with it, while generally those who used spears didnt have a lot of training with it. But there are exceptions to all rules.

Because of the grip of a spear and that of a sword there is a lot more kinetic energy you can exert with a shaft of steal then that of wood with a metal tip.

Most late medieval generals realized that short spears were getting less and less effective against heavier armor, hence the need for pikes.

**PerXX** · February 22, 2011, 01:02 PM

Don't swordmen also have a build-in bonus to attack when fighting spearmen (or spearmen having a penalty vs swordmen) ?
Seem to remember someone talking about that sometimes in the dawn of times.

**SirRobin** · February 22, 2011, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by PerXX

Don't swordmen also have a build-in bonus to attack when fighting spearmen (or spearmen having a penalty vs swordmen) ?
Seem to remember someone talking about that sometimes in the dawn of times.

It's something that has never been properly answered, and I think nobody knows what the truth is about it.