Scotland

**Kscott** · January 29, 2006, 03:20 PM

Ok, well, like many of you out there, I cant stress enough how happy I am Scotland was included. Sure some may argue Scotland was such a minor player, but I think its history has great importance the modern western world. True, most of Scotland's importance comes at a latter date, but in the medieval time we see a nation that was able to keep her idenity, while the English would do their best to take it away.

As Scotland the player will have the intresting challenge of not only surviving, but becomming the dominant player in the British Isles. To do this maybe a "celtic alliance" could be the factor that changes history forever.

Now I must say this. Who else is happy about the inclusion of Scotland!?

**Richard the Lionheart** · January 29, 2006, 03:24 PM

I'm happy to see Scotland has been included. Braveheart anyone?

**Libertine** · January 29, 2006, 03:26 PM

No, H&G - Braveheart is lower than the lowest thing i can think of. Its so bad it hurts.
I hate Mel Gibson for that film, really I despise the man.

I am happy Scotland are in though, they were an indivdual kingdom and they did hold thier own against England untill Edward I, and even then He only really invaded the lowlands.

But I cant wait to invade Scotland using my armies of Longbowmen

**Richard the Lionheart** · January 29, 2006, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by GrimSta

No, H&G - Braveheart is lower than the lowest thing i can think of. Its so bad it hurts.
I hate Mel Gibson for that film, really I despise the man.

Are you kidding? That movie was awesome

and sad

.

Mel Gibson was great for that film. I heard that when they showed that movie in Scotland, people came of the theaters ready to go to war with Britian!

So apparently the Scottish really liked it.

Sorry for the off-topic, Kscott.

**Sétanta** · January 29, 2006, 03:36 PM

I am happy that they are included just because they are the second best thing to being able to play as the Irish.

gaelic brothers in arms methinks

**Zenith Darksea** · January 29, 2006, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Honor&Glory

Are you kidding? That movie was awesome

and sad

.

Mel Gibson was great for that film. I heard that when they showed that movie in Scotland, people came of the theaters ready to go to war with Britian!

So apparently the Scottish really liked it.

Sorry for the off-topic, Kscott.

Sorry if someone else has already replied to this bizarre comment. Firstly, Scotland is IN Britain (for those who aren't aware of it). I am Scottish; I hated it. My family are Scottish; they hated it. Many of my friends are (unsurprisingly) Scottish; they also hated it. Let's take a look at a case study now.

In the town of Stirling (site of Wallace's famous victory), the council decided to erect a wooden statue of Mel Gibson in full kilt'n'claymore rig out for the tourists beneath the historic Wallace monument (a highly tasteful, well loved stone monument overlooking the town). After a couple of days, Gibson's head had been cut off. They replaced it. It was cut off again. And again. And again. They then replaced it with a stone statue, and there have been attempts to steal it. Let me explain why for a moment Scots hate that film:

1. It's unbelievably historically inaccurate. What the hell is Wallace doing wearing a KILT?!? He is a lowland Scot! Furthermore, tartan was not worn at all during this period, not even by highlanders and other clansmen. The events are totally screwed up (Wallace's father outlived him), characters are horribly poorly portrayed (the Queen of France with whom Gibson has the affair was in reality twelve years old at that time), and all Scots seem to have been turned into kitsch 18th century romantic highlanders.
2. It's got Mel Gibson in it.
3. It totally misrepresents other Scots, such as Robert the Bruce (a far greater hero than Wallace, and one who had to endure far more suffering), portraying him as fighting against Scottish freedom, something which he never did. Though it's true that he had been a friend of Edward's, he never actively supported him and whenever he did support him it was only under extreme duress. I found the portrayal of my national father as a willing turncoat to be highly offensive.
4. It's not actually very good.

Now, back on topic (finally!). I am immensely pleased that Scotland has made it in, and not just because it means that I get to kick English backside. To those people who say that Scotland as a faction never did anything, I would point to Robert the Bruce's liberation of Ireland from the English. I would point to the fact that Robert actually forced the North of England to swear fealty to him and pay him tribute thanks to his invasions. I would point to the fact that many Scottish forces reinforced the French in the Hundred Year's War and Scottish military advisors played a major role in the French victory. And I would point to the fact that the Scots under Thomas Randolph, Earl of Moray, launched a Crusade against the Moors in Spain. Plus Scotland can have a varied and interesting unit roster, and generally make the game that much cooler.

AND PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, ENGLAND IS NOT THE SAME THING AS BRITAIN! THE TERM 'BRITISH' CAN REFER TO AN ENGLISHMAN, SCOTSMAN, WELSHMAN OR NORTHERN IRISHMAN! ENGLAND IS NOT THE SAME THING AS SCOTLAND, AND 'BRITAIN' REFERS TO THE MODERN DAY COUNTRY OF THE UNITED KINGDOM!!!

Sorry for shouting, but I HAVE to clear that up. It drives me up the wall when I'm referred to as 'English', or when my country is said to have fought against the 'British'.

**Ranika** · January 29, 2006, 06:14 PM

What the hell were any of the Scots doing in kilts for that matter? Kilts didn't exist yet. Highland dress was Gaelic dress, outlined above.

Wallace himself toward the end of his career would probably have a look more like a Norman knight (mail armor and chausses, a helmet concealing his face, etc.); he was a knight afterall. And the depiction of Robert is rather monsterous and makes him seem both cowardly and weak, which didn't typify him at all. Also, where's Andrew de Moray in all this? He was superior in skill to William, but died of wounds recieved at Stirling (which he orchestrated, not Wallace).

**Roman-Warrior** · January 30, 2006, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by GrimSta

No, H&G - Braveheart is lower than the lowest thing i can think of. Its so bad it hurts.
I hate Mel Gibson for that film, really I despise the man.

Honestly I dont see what is wrong with the movie, I can't wait to play as the scotish just because of it. Sure it makes the english look a bit harsh but wasn't most of that movie historacly accurate? I know there was a william wallace and I know he was executed for fighting for his freedom, the scotish have a statue of him somewhere.

Who knows, scotland probably would have ended up as carthage if it wasn't for him, and I can't wait to play as them.

And I also liked " The Patriot " being American myself, I have nothing against the British, have a few clan friends for BF2 that live in London, good to talk to. But its funny Mel Gibson has made alot of movies against the English.

-Wes

**Leon Trotsky** · January 30, 2006, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Roman-Warrior

Who knows, scotland probably would have ended up as carthage if it wasn't for him, and I can't wait to play as them.

-Wes

Isn't that a bit excessive? The Romans desired to destroy Carthage. After they took the city, they flattened it, sowed the fields with salt and laid a curse on it so that no one would ever try to raise it again. The English (as far as i know) simply wished to either dominate or control Scotland.

Anywho, I'm excited about the inclusion of Scotland. But I'll be happy just so long as they include Russia, Turkey and France.

**Obershutze** · January 29, 2006, 03:39 PM

Scotland semms to be a big challenge. I think I will enjoy playing with them since like my ancestors they hated the english. Not that I hate the english (I love you Brits) !!!

Note: Bravehart was great.... the battles where awsome.

**Chuffy** · January 29, 2006, 03:44 PM

I'd much rather of seen another small faction included rather than Scotland. Not just because they were historically insignificant at the time, but because the Scottish game will be so boring.

Where can you expand.....only south....against ONE enemy. Oh joy.

Take Armenia, you are a small Christian nation surrounded by three mighty empires and you can expand in any number of directions! Thats so much more exciting!

**Kscott** · January 29, 2006, 03:46 PM

Lets see. What can the Scottish do.

1)Form a naval empire, conquering Ireland, and after generating some wealth fight for true owner of the Island.
2)Strike quick and hope that through military power alon you can defeat the English.

After that you can:
1)Go further to include other areas in your naval power
2)Strike the English lands of France

*also note the Scottish military should be vastly different than any other playable faction..

**Chuffy** · January 29, 2006, 03:57 PM

*also note the Scottish military should be vastly different than any other playable faction..

What, English without the Longbowmen?

Oh, silly me, CA will probably add in the highland beserker unit...

**Kscott** · January 29, 2006, 04:03 PM

what you talking about now? I have no clue why you mention longbowmen.

Scottish military:
-----------------
Higland Swordsmen-Broad sword
Lowland Pikemen-Extremely good light spearmen
*both which more or less are peasants, so are very good price per stats

Then you have many intresting gaelic skirmishers that only Celtic nations would have.

Plus you have men from the Hebrides. Celtic/Norse

**Chuffy** · January 29, 2006, 04:13 PM

"Vastly different from any other faction"

....so just the English without the Longbowmen, as that is what the Scottish military was like. Maybe a few "celtic" influences here and there, but I would hardly say they are very different.

However, since it is CA I wouldn't be suprised to see highland beserkers and mooning peasants (cause fear in nearby enemy units).

EDIT: Also, quezcotal....hahaha, I am laughing at you.

**RivieraKid** · January 30, 2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Chuffy

What, English without the Longbowmen?

rofl, thats the most rediculus thing i've ever heard.

**Jacobus** · September 21, 2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Chuffy

What, English without the Longbowmen?

Oh, silly me, CA will probably add in the highland beserker unit...

You obviously know nothing of the wars of independence between Scotland and England and Scottish culture.

While the English were organized and civilized Scots resolved there warfare using almost dirty warfare, where they would hit and run the enemy, Scottish were pretty brutal and almost barbaric then, they used to skin the bodys of English knights after battles and made knife belts and other items out of it. This isn't really portrayed in Braveheart.

And your trying to say Scottish culture was the same as English?
Don't think so mate. :hmmm:

Offensive text removed. Please keep your posts respectful. - Trajan

**JANOSIK007** · January 29, 2006, 04:04 PM

I would have been fine with Scotland in the game if other major European players hadn't been ignored, especially Bohemia.

I don't think that Scotland will be all that unique if you compare it with Bohemia. And if you add Hussite rebels to the mix, I would argue that Bohemia would be the most unique.

But I guess everyone can't be happy

.