If I were to enter into Christian heaven would it be possible for me to have a punch up with C.S Lewis?

[Helm]

I'm not sure how exactly I would get in there as I'm technically barred, but say I were to take Pascal up on his his wager just before I died just so I could have a shot at beating up C.S Lewis in heaven and to my surprise and shock it happened to work. The real questions here are would I still have the freewill to crack C.S Lewis over the head with a copy of his Year of Aslan book, would I still have physical body in which to carry out the assault and would C.S Lewis be capable of feeling pain? If not could I still subject him to some verbal abuse?

[Valden]

You said in a post the other day that you have not even read 'The Abolition of Man'; why do you have such a strong opinion on someone you know so little about?

[Helm]

I've read A Year With Aslan and Mere Christianity. But it's just the fact that he didn't convert to Christianity for any emotional or spiritual reasons but because he used reason and logic. That's like abandoning reason and logic through the use of reason and logic to me, therefore he will need a roughing up. But I'm really more interested in the practical and philosophical implictions of going into heaven with the intent of roughing someone up, it just happens to be C.S Lewis in this case.

[SigniferOne]

I've read A Year With Aslan and Mere Christianity. But it's just the fact that he didn't convert to Christianity for any emotional or spiritual reasons but because he used reason and logic. That's like abandoning reason and logic through the use of reason and logic to me

Oh give me a friggin' break, you have been known by both sides on this forum to use the most imprecise, foggy, irrational, anti-logical statements, that fit aimless passions and feelings, and not any kind of consistent, strict, relentless thinking. No one will have accused your posts on this forum, including this incoherent thread, of incredibly strict, logical thinking.

[The Dude]

Oh give me a friggin' break, you have been known by both sides on this forum to use the most imprecise, foggy, irrational, anti-logical statements, that fit aimless passions and feelings, and not any kind of consistent, strict, relentless thinking. No one will have accused your posts on this forum, including this incoherent thread, of incredibly strict, logical thinking.

It's funny because it's true. Have a rep.

[Helm]

Oh give me a friggin' break, you have been known by both sides on this forum to use the most imprecise, foggy, irrational, anti-logical statements, that fit aimless passions and feelings, and not any kind of consistent, strict, relentless thinking. No one will have accused your posts on this forum, including this incoherent thread, of incredibly strict, logical thinking.

If you thought I was being logical I'd be concerned.

I'm not really sure what the point of floating around as a soul for all eternity not doing anything much at all would be anyway. I couldn't even beat up C.S Lewis or blast him with psychic energy or whatever, assuming I genuinely converted but still didn't like the cut of his gib. What a load of balls that would be. At least in Islamic heaven you get to lounge around being served drinks by comly maidens of pure virtue, it may even distract me from going after C.S Lewis for a few hundred years but I'll get him eventually, I'll show him what he can do with his Jesus lion.



That's right C.S Lewis I'm coming for you, providing you're still out there to find and I can enter into your spiritual realm and I still have my own freewill when I die which is a pretty big if. If I can't get you physically it will be with psychic energies. You've been warned, prepare yourself.

[Valden]

Yeah, well that surely demonstrates the fallibility of logic, and if logic is fallible anything is possible. But yeah, in the middle ages you could get signed dispensations from the pope guaranteeing you a place in heaven, so assuming you can still get them nowadays, you are in mate. lol

[Helm]

I can't get into somewhere that doesn't exist, but I'm more interested in the hypothetical situation of roughing C.S Lewis in heaven. If I could do that it wouldn't be much of a paradise for him because he wouldn't it and if I couldn't it wouldn't be much of a paradise for me, seeing as I like to have freewill, which in this case I would be using to launch an assault on C.S Lewis.

[Khassaki]

I can't get into somewhere that doesn't exist, but I'm more interested in the hypothetical situation of roughing C.S Lewis in heaven. If I could do that it wouldn't be much of a paradise for him because he wouldn't it and if I couldn't it wouldn't be much of a paradise for me, seeing as I like to have freewill, which in this case I would be using to launch an assault on C.S Lewis.

Only the pure go to heaven, having evil in your heart would cause you to go to purgatory until the urge to beat up Lewis was burnt away, You would miss him anyway, he will be in hell along with all the other pedophiles so it would be a wasted trip anyway.

[Valden]

well your hypothetical situation cant exist, because it is reliant on the hypothetical situation of heaven existing, which you already rejected.
I don't think you would be able to really, if heaven was real, it would be more of a spiritual thing? You wouldnt physically be there with arms and legs, you would be existing on a more spiritual plain i would assume.

[Helm]

Could I launch some kind of spiritual or psychic attack on the immaterial soul of C.S Lewis then?

[Valden]

I don't think it would be possible, since the Christian prerequisite to enter heaven is to forgive others, and be forgiven yourself, to be a sinner repenteth so to speak. The argument would be that God would know that you harboured these desires. So God would not be able to forgive you for your sins, knowing you only desired forgiveness in order to commit another sin.
Although, another argument would be that heaven is paradise. I followed the same logic as yours in a recent essay, claiming that since Eden was a utopia, it would have been impossible for capitalism to exist there, since capitalism subjugates the masses. My lecturer however, scribbled all voer it, saying that anything could exist and was possible in the prelapsarian world, before the fall of man. So, assuming that by going to heaven, humans regain this lost prelapsarian closeness with God, it would be possible for you to hurt Lewis AND for Lewis to still enjoy paradise.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Presumably reality would be one with your imagination.

[Dr. Croccer]

You know you're doing something wrong when the most diametrically opposed people on the forum agree on how you're doing.

[Valden]

He'll send you back to earth with your balls in a sling

[Squiggle]

I'm not sure how exactly I would get in there as I'm technically barred, but say I were to take Pascal up on his his wager just before I died just so I could have a shot at beating up C.S Lewis in heaven and to my surprise and shock it happened to work. The real questions here are would I still have the freewill to crack C.S Lewis over the head with a copy of his Year of Aslan book, would I still have physical body in which to carry out the assault and would C.S Lewis be capable of feeling pain? If not could I still subject him to some verbal abuse?

If you managed to reach heaven you would never dream of wanting to do any of that.

[Tuor]

If you managed to reach heaven you would never dream of wanting to do any of that.

Yes, Helm, you wouldn't be able to think that because the boss would insist that you think otherwise.

Edit: That leads me to a question, actually. If God can make heaven be perfect and everyone in it perfect, why couldn't he do that with the Earth? If he can make it so you don't want to do something like what Helm is talking about to C. S. Lewis (which I do not condone, as I love his fiction series), why can't he do that to people on Earth?

[Squiggle]

Yes, Helm, you wouldn't be able to think that because the boss would insist that you think otherwise.

Edit: That leads me to a question, actually. If God can make heaven be perfect and everyone in it perfect, why couldn't he do that with the Earth? If he can make it so you don't want to do something like what Helm is talking about to C. S. Lewis (which I do not condone, as I love his fiction series), why can't he do that to people on Earth?

Adam and Eve were perfect, but lacked complete faith in God. The difference between those saved and Adam, is that we've already had our period of doubt, and we have learned through this life to have complete faith in God.

[Sher Khan]

Helm, people have been using logic and reason to approach faith in God for centuries. And not just Christians, but Muslims and Jews as well. I would guess that, if you did make it to heaven, you would have gone through enough change as a person to no longer feel like you need to punch C.S. Lewis.

But let's say you do. Hypothetically you'd be picking a fight you couldn't win. The man fought through and survived the Somme. You wouldn't stand a chance.

[Helm]

Helm, people have been using logic and reason to approach faith in God for centuries. And not just Christians, but Muslims and Jews as well. I would guess that, if you did make it to heaven, you would have gone through enough change as a person to no longer feel like you need to punch C.S. Lewis.

I'm not necesarily entirely against the concept of some kind of deism but then neither is Richard Dawkins. We're just against the kind of God Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in, the interventionist kind who tells you what you should wear, what you can and can't eat, who you should and shouldn't have sex with what you're meant to do on a Sunday and so on.

But let's say you do. Hypothetically you'd be picking a fight you couldn't win. The man fought through and survived the Somme. You wouldn't stand a chance.

I'll dedicate my life to learning judo or some other martial art disipline so I can give him a decent fight of it then. It's like preparation for the next world, and I'll have something worth doing when I get here that's what I like about the idea. Locked in an eternal combat with C.S Lewis.