Reagan on Public Sector Unions: Kicking Arsenic and Taking Names

[SigniferOne]

The arguments being made here are finely made, and asserted without fear, for defending principles. This should be a model for today's politicians, and indeed, based on latest political events in the US, it is.

[Big War Bird]

Now that is leadership.

Unfortunately we have president that would rather be throwing molotov cocktails than conscientiously administering the government.

[SigniferOne]

Unfortunately we have president that would rather be throwing molotov cocktails

Or, sipping cocktails with Molotov

Reagen? Principles?

Would you like to add anything to the thread itself?

[Rolling Thunder]

Would you like to add anything to the thread itself?

Sir, I feel there is nothing more that can be added to the discussion, thanks in no small part to the well-reasoned and painstakingly considered material you have put into this thread.

[SigniferOne]

Sir, I feel there is nothing more that can be added to the discussion, thanks in no small part to the well-reasoned and painstakingly considered material you have put into this thread.

I have put into this thread an official Presidential Press Conference, and as it is sufficiently well-reasoned and painstakingly considered for a whole nation, I think it's sufficiently well-reasoned and painstakingly considered for this forum.

[Ramashan]

Now that is leadership.

Unfortunately we have president that would rather be throwing molotov cocktails than conscientiously administering the government.

In the Constitution there is something that, I believe, gives State gov the right to handle their own affairs. Obama has no business sticking his nose in the affairs of Wisconsin and Ohio and those state governments action with their state unions. Reagan's actions in 81' make perfect sense in the context of his speech and thinking back on that time, not everyone was happy about it, people did think that the Fed was going to take away union rights.

Another difference is, the Fed negotiated with this union first. The states want to remove that hurdle period. I don't recall Reagan, in his speech, or any future President going so far as to remove Federal unions bargaining rights. Many people take those jobs such as Police, Fire, Teachers, Sanitation BECAUSE of the strong unions and the benefits they have because of them. Would be interesting to see how the system would work when that is removed. I suppose we would need to have a state put threw one of these anti-bargaining laws to see.

[Rolling Thunder]

Reagen? Principles?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Reagen? Principles?

As much as I hate the sound of his voice, Reagan was one of your best presidents. Of course he was a bit cocky in his second term, and there was quite a bit of

[MathiasOfAthens]

Reagen was a Joke... what the hell is wrong with the idea of Unions? What do you conservs find so disgusting with the idea of labour banding together for wage protection and fair working conditions that is so wrong. Instead you promote policies that make workers earn less and managers earn more... your not supporting the little man here the worker, your supporting the corporate heads.

[Big War Bird]

Reagen was a Joke... what the hell is wrong with the idea of Unions?

I guess you didn't watch the video since you seemed to have missed that

1. Reagan defended private sector unions.
2. Public sector unions on strike imperil public safety and the purpose of government.

And people wonder why I dislike posting sources. You either didn't watch the video or you are completely incapable of understanding it. If I only post what I think and know I can at least be pretty confident a person responding to me at least read what I wrote.

[MathiasOfAthens]

If Public Sector unions imperil public safety then the UK and France must be falling apart in chaos caused by striking airlines.

Public sector unions are there to protect public employees from government abuse just as much as private unions are there to protect employees from corporate abuse.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Lets also remember that the governor's proposal stripping Wisconsins Public Unions the right to bargain collectively does not apply to Police, Firefighters and State Troopers... So I dont think Public Safety is going to be imperiled now is it. And Striking is meant slow down the wheels of the machine or in this case government in order to make a point.

[Big War Bird]

Think of the children. The teachers are intentionally stunting the education of children in that state. Their actions are no different in principle than that of segregationists that barred black children from a proper eduction.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[MathiasOfAthens]

You would think.... but there are prob other reasons why students have no intention to learn. Thats a topic for another thread.... but I think it has to do with how the teachers are allowed to teach... perhaps there needs to be more consequences for students failing... teachers shouldnt be afraid to fail a student. And if a student fails a grade in a HS they dont repeat that year they are sent to another school for troubled kids.

[SigniferOne]

70% of firemen in America are volunteers.

[MathiasOfAthens]

70% of firemen in America are volunteers.

Because local city governments dont have the funds to pay so many firefighters to sit around in a station playing checkers or cleaning their truck every day. So the rest show up when theres a fire and sign up for "showup pay".

[SigniferOne]

Because local city governments dont have the funds to pay so many firefighters to sit around in a station playing checkers or cleaning their truck every day. So the rest show up when theres a fire and sign up for "showup pay".

No because of values that not all people understand, such as civic virtue and duty.

[Sphere]

All these hypothetical bad outcomes of public sector unions, but where is the beef?

Wisconsin was the first state to have public sector unions, and arguably has the strongest public sector unions in the nation. So public workers must be overpaid compared to their private sector equivilents, go on strike whenever their salary/benefits are threatened and in general create a lousy, run down, and broken state correct?

Yet these hypotheticals have not translated into reality. Wisconsin public employee compensation is actually less than their private counterparts. Since labor abritration between public employee unions and the state became legally required, there have been essentially no public employee strikes. Wisconsin taxes have stayed middle of the road, as has public education for k-12 all the while maintaining a state economy better than the national average. So where exactly is the beef? If Wisconsin has had public employee unions for over seven decades now, surely Reagans concerns should have manifested themselves by now, yet they haven't.

It's good to have a principled position, but it is even better to have a principled position that is founded on reality.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Great posts Sphere.

[Angrychris]

unions are what less then 10% of the jobs in the U.S. and shrinking yet they are the threat? Non-union ceos and management horde all the funds and destroy more lifes then unions have ever done. Im proud of being part of a union.