Turkiye: The Next Islamic Republic or Breaking Free of Chains?

[glitch]

Yes, yet another Turkish democracy thread.


About a year ago, I created a similar thread discussing the state of democracy in Turkiye. After reading some interesting articles and compiling information, I thought I'd create another one. Some articles are a bit older (not that old, really), but they are highly relevant.

The questions is where Turkish democracy heading(either with the AKP or any other political party) Here come the links:

Freedom of Press at historical low
Summary:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"The latest annual freedom of the press index by the international group Reporters Without Borders has ranked Turkey 138th among 175 countries, just above Ethiopia and Russia, and 16 spots lower than last year....the frenzied proliferation of lawsuits, incarcerations and court sentencing targeting journalists...Currently, 47 members of the press in Turkey are under arrest and being tried, while more than 700 criminal and civil cases involving journalists are ongoing"

While some EU member scored badly themselves, Turkiye scored just above Russia and Ethopia (according to the article). Also they're reports that the Oda TV journalist are being arrest, accused of having connections with "sledgehammer" case; others say its because they are fierce critics of the AKP

I also tried to post a responsive comment on he Hurriyet Daily News comment section under this article , and it was never posted:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

@ ilker/cyprus/borne girne

I'm afraid it's you that has a lack of historical knowledge. There has been bad blood between the two, especially when Ottoman Turks tried to invade several times (Yes, some Iranians still hold a grudge). Even when Iran trades with Armenia, a country that Turkey embargoes,and devotes half a museum to the Armenian question.

And there have been reports that Iran executes someone every 8 hours, somehow I doubt they're that many child molesters , rapists, drugs trafficker, etc in the country...more like political prisoners.

Yes, Iran does have a lot of oil, but unfortunately , it's the life blood of the economy. No oil = No money. As for space program, Russia created Sputnik as a propaganda war. In reality, Sputnik did nothing.

Somehow, I don't think Ataturk ever imagined the President of Turkey to be siting down with a religious "leader" that brutally suppress his own people.

It's you that doesn't understand Iranian culture.

I'm wondering why.

Alcohol Tax Increase
Summary:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...

With the second rise in the special consumption tax in less than a year, taxes on rakı now surpass the...The government’s decision, which triggered reactions, especially from the tourism industry and the political opposition, corresponds to a 30 percent ÖTV rise per liter in high-alcohol drinks, such as rakı, vodka and gin....

A good way to gain more revenue or another way to control alcohol consumption? Perhaps both. I know the AKP has a habit of taxing just about anything they can, but is it a means of control?

Turkey's Top Religious Cleric Removed

Summary:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The head of Turkey’s Religious Affairs Directorate, Ali Bardakoğlu, was replaced Wednesday, sparking debate over whether or not he resigned or was forced out by the ruling government.
Headscarf issue might be factor
According to observers in Ankara, some of Bardakoğlu’s recent comments have conflicted with the government’s views, especially on the headscarf issue.
“Don’t leave the headscarf issue to us, let the politicians solve it through dialogue,” Bardakoğlu had said.
Erdoğan had previously called for a solution to the issue through the involvement of the Religious Affairs Directorate, a department within the Prime Ministry.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I can not find any real reason why he was removed, other than his impartial view of the headscarf issue.


Poll Results of Referendum

Summary: " Acording to Aydın, who spoke to the state-run news station TRT Haber on Wednesday, 70,000 citizens were surveyed. “As the level of education increases, people’s ideas of the AKP turns negative,”...Over 50 percent of the lowest-educated voted “yes,” nearly 40 percent of those with middle levels of education voted “yes,” and only about 30 percent of those with higher levels of education voted “yes.”...Another surprise for Erdoğan was the 66 percent who believe secularism is endangered..."


Clear and simple really.This poll was taken after the Constitutional referendum was passed. If I remember correctly, geographically, Western Turkiye voted against while Eastern voted for the referendum.

President Gul Meets Iranian Dictator



Summary: Gul talks and smiles with puppet and puppet master. Talks of increasing trade, etc...while protests are outside....


EXCEPT HERE IS THE KICKER!!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

- driver with the Turkish delegation accompanying President Abdullah Gül to Iran this week was beaten after being caught up in a crackdown on anti-government demonstrations, Milliyet newspaper reported on Wedneday.
- Journalists on the trip were unable to communicate by phone or text message, or to access websites such as Facebook and Twitter, he wrote.
-The Iranian government was making the Feb. 14 rally look smaller than it was, Akyol wrote, saying that the protesters he saw were more than “a couple thousand people, it was a mass.”
-Gül and Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu struggled to overcome the communications blackout, and were forced to send urgent cables by telegraph from the Turkish Embassy in Tehran, a private news channel, TGRT Haber reported.

It's a bit hard to make of all this living outside the county, but from where I'm sitting, it doesn't necessarily look good. In one sense, perhaps the AKP is thinking finances,trying tap into untapped markets (Iran). Is the AKP really trying to free up the country, or do they have their own agenda in mind? Keep in mind that I feel the CHP & other parties have had their troubles too. I often wonder how deep the relationship between the CHP and the military is. But perhaps without the military, democracy wouldn't exist. A lot of things to digest...

For discussion about the 2011 Turkish elections, please go here. --Red

[removeduser_487563287433]

Can we discuss the matter of spelling in Turkiye?

[Heinz Guderian]

Can we discuss the matter of spelling in Turkiye?

I think Turkey is spelt Turkiye in Turkey.

[athanaric]

Some interesting info in the OP.

I think Turkey is spelt Turkiye in Turkey.

Actually, it's Türkiye, with a capital Umlaut.

[Heinz Guderian]

Some interesting info in the OP.



Actually, it's Türkiye, with a capital Umlaut.

Es tut mir leid my friend. I stand corrected.

[The Dude]

As for Turkey becoming an Islamic Republic, to be fair I have no idea. It takes more than mere reduction of the freedom of press to become a different state, and beyond that it could really become anything though for obvious reasons a theocracy is first in line.

It may well be a good deal for the rest of Europe if Turkey degenerates into theocracy. Means we can finally draw a line at the greek border and say "this is where Europe ends". Stronger cultural identities for all involved, win/win.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes and I think this thread is in English.

[Darth Red]

I think Turkey is spelt Turkiye in Turkey.

ZING!

Yes and I think this thread is in English.

Meh, I think it's fine.


After consulting with the OP, I think a move to the Acedemy would be best for this.

[Armenum]

I don't think Turkey is turning into an Islamic state. You just have the ruling party catering to religious folks, not only for national elections, but also to gain a foothold in the Middle East and among other Muslim countries. They want to be viewed increasingly as a bridge between East and West, and I don't blame them as they have the means and geopolitics to do so, instead of just being a tool of the West.

[Their Law]

I don't think Turkey is turning into an Islamic state. You just have the ruling party catering to religious folks, not only for national elections, but also to gain a foothold in the Middle East and among other Muslim countries. They want to be viewed increasingly as a bridge between East and West, and I don't blame them as they have the means and geopolitics to do so, instead of just being a tool of the West.

I agree with this, though i am concerned for the Turkish state seeming disregard for historical sites pre dating it's Islam's arrival. But that's more of a personal gripe than an actual problem.

[PointOfViewGun]

This thread topic could be talked well within the one I created in mudpit.

[RollingWave]

Let's just point out that the Taliban is really an exception to the rule, and was really viable more so because that Afganistan was extremely undeveloped, war ravaged and tribal even by the standards of the Islamic world.

Otherwise, Sunni Islam generally does not have the Clerical organization that could form into a real theological state, if we use a comparason, then the organizational difference amongest the Clergy between Sunni and Shia is somewhat comparable to the difference between Protestian and Catholics.

[Akrotatos]

Turkey is never going to turn to an Islamic regime. If the Islamists were ever close to doing what they did to Iran, the army would simply intervene and end any trouble.

[motiv-8]

Turkey is never going to turn to an Islamic regime. If the Islamists were ever close to doing what they did to Iran, the army would simply intervene and end any trouble.

That's true. Turkey's military is staunchly secular and would very much move to halt any kind of turn in the constitutional make up of the state towards an explicitly religious stature. Even if it meant destroying the country's democracy. There really is no parallel here with, say, Iran.

[white-wolf]

There is no way that Türkiye turns another Islamic State.

That also, the current governing Party is not more religious than Merkel's Party at Germany.

[motiv-8]

Indeed, I found making a big deal out of the country's alcohol tax rather amusing considering the same thing happens in the Unites States. Cigarettes too.