dale gets pounded within a few dozen turns

[TREG]

dale seems to do fine in AI mode, but it seriously gets ed up when you play it as a human IMO. they just don't have a great economy and there's not very much time for expansion at all before you get hate-tackled by rhun into the dust. i've managed, at most, to take dorwinion and the two settlements to the south and southwest before multiple stacks of rhunish warriors begin hurling in over the steppes to the east, none of them particularly dangerous on their own, but quickly taking a toll as dale's meager economy just can't produce enough warriors to keep up with the attrition.

i've played both vanilla TATW and FROME and both seem to have this problem. oddly enough erebor or the other dwarf settlements never seem to fall... probably because of garrison scripts and AI defense advantage...

i think lake-town should get a pretty major commerce boost... it would really assist in the early game for dale. another factor is possibly the lack of much cavalry initially.

[zowrath]

Have you tried to sue for a truce? Many a great commander in history have feigned a truce and then attacked stronger later on. In turn one build a diplomat and all the troops you can, move all your generals and troops towards Uldorvan or what that castle's name is, can't remember at the moment. Second turn, build an assassin and more troops if you have available. When you get close, consolidate all stacks. If you are lucky you get a mission to take a rebel settlement close by for best units currently available. If you've built stables up north then you'll get three of those, but you can do this without the light cavalry.

Attacking and taking the castle, which Rhùn usually has by now, is easy enough with the stack you just brought. It should be 75% full at least, lots of archers and some spearmen to boot. Your generals do well as melee troops to so put them in front. When I attacked the castle I went for a stack outside it and thus drew the forces out and annihilated both, then waltzed in to the castle.

By now I had my spy down there to have a look at what's going on, my assassin was arriving soon and my diplomat made a truce with Rhùn for some gold and a trade agreement. Now I will use assassins to sabotage their recruitment centres actively, and when I have built up my troops I swoop in to take the rest. Use all means available to you. Spies, assassins and diplomats are a tool of war as well


EDIT: Oh and one thing that people may tend to forget, always move your capital city around to where it will maximize your money gain. Like High-Elves for example, changing from Imladris to one closer to the brunt of your settlements may give you more than 1000 gold per turn early on. For Dale, this isn't so much an issue at the beginning put as your empire expands it is wise to keep an eye on this. Also, make trade agreements with anyone you can.

[Thefallenhun]

Or you could do what I do and neuter the enemies a little, TATW is coded so that everyone has a ludicrous advantage over you, which isnot fun when you jus want to see awesom unit battles.

[Nicolaos]

rhun just rulz.

[mondpeiler]

jep, dale is really a challenge.
well don't try to expand too fast from the start and try to keep rhun away from your settlements xD

[Thefallenhun]

once you get that pike/halbred troop though, sarts with a B I forget the exact name you will totally kick their gold plated heads in

[Kaiser Leonidas]

once you get that pike/halbred troop though, sarts with a B I forget the exact name you will totally kick their gold plated heads in

I believe that they are called Barding Hird.

[zowrath]

I had a fun moment as Dale just now. I'm in turn 51, and conquered most of northern Rhùn but my spies showing three full stacks coming in from the south and one returning from the west after Edoras was captured by Isengard. I've been taking some chances, using spies to gain instant access to towns without the need to lay siege, and stretched myself pretty thin.

Seeing this situation I decided to pull back, sack two of the towns and come back later on when I'm at full strength. Crossing a bridge I notice Loke-Khan trying to hide in the bush with three troops and I'm having 3/4 stack at 80% strength so I decide to try and wipe him out on my way back to let me feel better about having to retreat. This was easy enough, and when I return to the strat-map that's the end of Rhùn

I'd managed to assassinate two generals earlier, I guess it was the last of his bloodline, so when he went so did his kingdom. Well, just mopping up rebel settlements now before going after Harad or even the backdoor in to Mordor.

I've had this happen a couple of times in other games, but usually not before I'm closing in and they got a settlement or two left. Funny how things can turn out some times Spies, assassins and diplomats are powerful tools.

[C.Maximus]

I had a fun moment as Dale just now. I'm in turn 51, and conquered most of northern Rhùn but my spies showing three full stacks coming in from the south and one returning from the west after Edoras was captured by Isengard. I've been taking some chances, using spies to gain instant access to towns without the need to lay siege, and stretched myself pretty thin.

Seeing this situation I decided to pull back, sack two of the towns and come back later on when I'm at full strength. Crossing a bridge I notice Loke-Khan trying to hide in the bush with three troops and I'm having 3/4 stack at 80% strength so I decide to try and wipe him out on my way back to let me feel better about having to retreat. This was easy enough, and when I return to the strat-map that's the end of Rhùn

I'd managed to assassinate two generals earlier, I guess it was the last of his bloodline, so when he went so did his kingdom. Well, just mopping up rebel settlements now before going after Harad or even the backdoor in to Mordor.


That's dope man it reminds me of this time in broken crescent where I got half of southern India to revolt by using priests as the ere lol I would take half their providences without going to war with them lol I also uses assassin and spies to increase disorder

I've had this happen a couple of times in other games, but usually not before I'm closing in and they got a settlement or two left. Funny how things can turn out some times Spies, assassins and diplomats are powerful tools.

[zowrath]

Originally Posted by CannabisMaximus
That's dope man it reminds me of this time in broken crescent where I got half of southern India to revolt by using priests as the ere lol I would take half their providences without going to war with them lol I also uses assassin and spies to increase disorder

Yeah, all those "little-guys" are really useful in any campaign.

[Scottduszy]

Dale is really easy IMO, 1st objective is to keep your archers alive. Your starting infantry is easily replaceable so just run them in the the grinder don't worry about them very much, just keep your archers alive.

Against Rhun your first objective will be to take Uldonavan, which the will automatically get a stack that sieges it on turn 2. Make Lord Bain the Athal of the Rhonvian on turn 1 and have him command the bulk of your armies, besieging the rebel settlements and recruiting more units to take Uldonavan. (Tip: you can kill 3/4 of the units at Rhovanost by just telling your archers to attack the infantry at the gate while taking no casualties!) Once you have a large enough army to send to Uldonavan, try to goad them into attacking you. Then set up your army on a hill with the infantry forming a wall for your archers. (your army should be 1/3 to 1/2 archers.) When they charge you they will be exhausted, demoralized, and half dead. Once you take Uldonavan a long grind will come, start building some great units from the fortress and slowly march across Rhun, using the strategy I just mentioned. You should have Bain's stats very high and a experienced army. Just keep fighting of the stacks until the country folds.

[whhyy]

I don't really see what is hard about surviving early game... you just have to be crafty. Failing that following the advise in this thread will work...

The really harrowing part for Dale is when His Holiness the Dark Lord of Mordor declares a Crusade on you.
Unless you know it is coming and are ready you will probably loose Dale. Especially if it is your first time playing TATW, as it was for me ( invasion stacks move so darn fast).

Also does anyone else feel that everything they do as Dale is just delaying the inevitable, like one big last stand?

[J_Bones]

Blitz for Uldonavan!

[Hejdun]

Dale is so hard mainly because Dale's early units are so terrible, and Rhun's are so great. Rhun's basic missile troops are literally better in melee than Dale's spearmen. Rhun's generals are also the TATW equivalent of tanks--they're tougher to kill than even the Nazgul units. Basically, don't rely on your spearmen to do anything at all but die. 90% of the kills in every battle will come from your archers.

That's why it's imperative to blitz to the southern Castles, where you can finally recruit some capable melee units.

[whhyy]

Dale is so hard mainly because Dale's early units are so terrible, and Rhun's are so great. Rhun's basic missile troops are literally better in melee than Dale's spearmen. Rhun's generals are also the TATW equivalent of tanks--they're tougher to kill than even the Nazgul units. Basically, don't rely on your spearmen to do anything at all but die. 90% of the kills in every battle will come from your archers.

That's why it's imperative to blitz to the southern Castles, where you can finally recruit some capable melee units.

Yeah I know what you mean they have way too much armor. The most annoying part is at the end where their entire army is dead but the general himself is the last one left, and refuses to die.

Only one solution:

Select entire army

Alt right click on lone enemy general

Set timescale to 6x

Walk away and come back in an hour.

Dale units are more likely to slit their own throats than actually land a hit so expect to loose a lot of men to that morale locked mounted god in golden armor.

[ticcan]

Hi,

I was under the impression that Dale gets a unit called dismounted earls. I am almost at turn 100, population of Dale is 20000+, i have just built the drill square but the best troops i can make are Swordmasters.

Am i missing something?

[Astarte]

They are only in citadels and huge cities. Pretty rare unit, and swordmasters are way more cool.

[William the Silent]

I attacked south to take Uldorvan before turn 20 end right away got attacked by 3 stacks of Rhun to loose it all. So I started over at turn 10 and took Uldorvan in turn 30 with a better upgraded army while watching Rhun with spies. Surprisingly they didn't come after me up till now (turn 40) eventho the have big stacks.
Maybe they have problems somewhere else.

[ticcan]

Thanks, so i have to wait for 25000 pop before i will see them?

Sadly only one castle and as pop in castles barely ever gets above 1% i wont be seeing them there anytime soon!

Why are the swordmasters more cool?

[Astarte]

Yes. There was only one city in Dale and capital of Rhun that can even become huge city nearby. Closest citadel is Minas Tirith, Moria may also become one. If you want to have them really, go and take Isengard, thats what I did.

Earls are little ugly compared to swordmasters, also you can retrain swordmasters in much more places, so they are more useable.