View Poll Results: After taking a look at what the parties in this poll stand for and based on their past actions, which one would you vote for?

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  • AKP

    9 14.75%
  • CHP

    26 42.62%
  • MHP

    7 11.48%
  • Other (Please state)

    19 31.15%
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Thread: 2011 Turkish General Elections

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  1. #1

    Default 2011 Turkish General Elections

    In about four months time general elections will be held in Turkey; 12th of June to be precise. It's anticipated to be one of the most important elections since AKP came to power. Even though some might think why should they care but I'm sure some people will take interest in the elections as it will determine future of domestic and international affairs of Turkey deeply and probably some new threads will appear. So, I'll give some information on political parties and past elections in this opening post and anything may be put here in the future.

    Let's just keep the nasty remarks and subtle insults out of this and have a decent and simple discussion on politics. Feel free to ask any question on Turkey and I'll respond as informative and opinion-free as possible.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One thing to know before everything else about Turkish elections is the fact that there is an election threshold of 10%. It's usually contrasted to thresholds in various EU states which have it around 1-5% and deemed to be outdated.

    The parliament is made up of 550 members and the numbers in parenthesis is the respective number of members in the parliament from each party. The parties below represent the situation as of 2011.

    List of parties and abbreviations:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Parties in the parliament:
    AKP: Justice and Parliament Party. (334) Wiki page.
    CHP: Republican People's Party. (101) Wiki page. Official website.
    MHP: Nationalist Movement Party. (70) Wiki page.
    BDP: Peace and Democracy Party. (20) Wiki page.
    DSP: Democratic Left Party. (6) Wiki page.
    DP: Democratic Party. (1) Wiki Page.
    TP: Turkey Party. (1) Wiki page.

    Other parties to watch for:
    SP: Felicity Party. Wiki page.
    HASP: People's Voice Party. Wiki page.
    BBP: Great Union Party. Wiki page.
    HEPAR: Rights and Equality Party. Wiki page.

    Past parties:
    DTP: Democratic Society Party. Wiki page.
    FP: Virtue Party. Wiki page.
    ANAP: Motherland Party. Wiki page.
    DYP: True Path Party. Later became DP.
    GP: Young Party. Wiki page.
    DEHAP: Democratic People's Party. Wiki page.
    SHP: Social Democratic People's Party. Wiki page.


    AKP:
    They came to power after a series of economic crisis in Turkey. People were fed up with failed economic policies of the past(mostly because they were long term solutions with no substantial impact in the short run). So the economic rise of Turkey of tday is mostly due to foreign investment and what we call "hot money." Before them the South Eastern Anatolia Project (Güneydoğu Anadolu Projesi, GAP) was started which targeted the South Eastern Turkey where bunch of dams and institutions would be built which would provide employment and agricultural boost. They're accused of being religious but that's not the biggest problem. The biggest threat is that one by one they're replacing people in important institutions in Turkey; Police force, Judicial system, etc. Some people who used to vote for them started to fear that Erdoğan, the leader of AKP, of becoming a tyrant.

    CHP:
    They've been around for quite sometime though they were shot down by the military between 1980 and 1992. Under the former leader, Deniz Baykal, they entered a pitch battle with AKP as the main opposition party. Under Baykan, even though they increased their votes up above 20% they were less than efficient. With the change of Baykal to Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu they became much more active and efficient. Their policies can be described as Social Democracy that play well with Capitalism. They haven't been in power of any institution of government so I can't really give examples of their policies but lately AKP have been mimicking their declared policies as their own. They're the party that are labeled after the Kemalist ideology though I'm pretty sure if you asked any of those people they wouldn't be able to tell you what it is. They're not really pro-army but they're not really anti-army as well.

    MHP:
    They're what some people would ultra-nationalist. They're quite religious too. They're much harsher on certain issues and most likely hold Turkish identity above all. Nonetheless, they don't have much support and a great portion of its supporters are not that zealous. The good thing about them is that they can play along nice.

    BDP:
    They're the continuation of a series of Kurdish nationalist party. Even though Turkey has roughly 15-20% ethnic Kurds they never get more than 5% of the votes. In the past they even tried to enter the election with a few other parties combined and still pulled 5-6%. They're made up of people that used to enter elections from CHP. So they share some of the ideals but never pursue them much as their Kurdish identity comes first.


    To understand the trend we have to start looking at elections from the general election right before AKP was created. General and local elections are held every 5 years. In 1999 general and local elections were held at the same day. Only parties that got more than 5% of the votes are listed below.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1999 General Elections:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    DSP: 22.19%
    MHP: 17.98%
    FP: 15.41%
    ANAP: 13.22%
    DYP: 12.01%
    CHP: 8.71%


    Notes: FP got banned for violating secularism in 2001.

    1999 Local Elections:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    DSP: 18.70%
    MHP:17.17%
    FP: 16.48%
    ANAP: 15.03%
    DYP: 13.21%
    CHP: 11.08%


    2002 General Elections:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    AKP: 34.28%
    CHP: 19.4%
    DYP: 9.55%
    MHP: 8.34%
    GP: 7.25%
    DEHAP: 6.23%
    ANAP: 5.13%


    2004 Local Elections:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    AKP: 41.67%
    CHP: 18.23%
    MHP: 10.45%
    DYP: 9.97%
    SHP: 5.15%


    Note: DYP changed its name to DP in 2007 after a failed attempt to merge with ANAP.
    Note: DEHAP entered the elections with many other smaller parties under the name of SHP.
    Note: DEHAP merged with another minor party to form DTP in 2005.

    2007 General Elections:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    AKP: 46.66%
    CHP: 20.85%
    MHP: 14.29%
    DP: 5.41%
    Independents: 5.20%


    Note: 22 of 26 independent members went on to form DTP.

    2009 Local Elections:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    AKP: 38.99%
    CHP: 23.23%
    MHP: 16.13%
    DTP: 5.41%
    SP: 5.18%


    Note: DTP got banned in 2009 for its ties to PKK but its members formed BDP.


    From the past election results we see AKP rising very fast and then starting a decline with 2009 local elections. This trend is also echoed by a number of polls by SONAR research company that is known to produce polls that predicted the past elections accurately.

    The polls from May, June and July of 2010:
    May
    June
    July

    Another indication was the recent referendum held in Turkey where a constitutional change packet that was proposed by AKP but opposed by opposition parties got "Yes" by 57.88%. The problem with this for AKP is that the vote turnout was 73.71% which makes the real percentage of those that voted "Yes" to be 42.66%. While it's safe to assume that almost all of AKP supporters voted "Yes", not all of the CHP and MHP supporters either voted or some voted "Yes". I myself was denied a vote as I was traveling that day and they didn't allow me to vote in the airport.

    So, a great portion of that 42.66% is not made up of people that would vote for AKP. Back then when I made a more detailed calculation taking off percentages based on indications of that time to get to see how much of that whole percentage of people that voted "Yes" made up the AKP supporters and found it to be 29%. Of course, it's been some time since then and things can change but since then the trend is unlikely to change.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Please feel free to shoot some questions based on what I've written above.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; February 18, 2011 at 12:27 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Why is BDP listed to "others"? Just because is Kurdish and it should be marginalised?
    I wouldn't vote for any party as I know very little about them. Is there any non islamist, non nationalist, non fundamentalist secularist, anti army interference in politics, libertarian socially, center economically, promoting human rights, open and free society, respect for minorities (ethnic and religious) and peacefull relations with neighbours and the region and EU integration?

  3. #3
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    nice thread darklord

    Quote Originally Posted by CiviC View Post
    Why is BDP listed to "others"? Just because is Kurdish and it should be marginalised?
    I wouldn't vote for any party as I know very little about them. Is there any non islamist, non nationalist, non fundamentalist secularist, anti army interference in politics, libertarian socially, center economically, promoting human rights, open and free society, respect for minorities (ethnic and religious) and peacefull relations with neighbours and the region and EU integration?
    Well with it's stand BDP fits that most, and thats the party I'm gonna vote for.
    Others do not contain all at the same time sadly.
    I will never feel okay with CHP because of their Atatürk craziness, I believe they will never be totally free in their minds, sadly many radical left people vote for that party. But thats probably just to stop liberal conservative AKP from getting more power.

    It is also worth mentioning that in Turkey, what defines left is secularism and anti-imperialism...which I believe is wrong(it should be based on anti-capitalism).Since I'm not for a parliementer system ideally, but for a people's revolution I'll just go with BDP.

    On the other hand I'm member of a mini-party which does not participate in elections but just act as a NGO.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  4. #4

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    nice thread darklord



    Well with it's stand BDP fits that most, and thats the party I'm gonna vote for.
    Others do not contain all at the same time sadly.
    I will never feel okay with CHP because of their Atatürk craziness, I believe they will never be totally free in their minds, sadly many radical left people vote for that party. But thats probably just to stop liberal conservative AKP from getting more power.

    It is also worth mentioning that in Turkey, what defines left is secularism and anti-imperialism...which I believe is wrong(it should be based on anti-capitalism).Since I'm not for a parliementer system ideally, but for a people's revolution I'll just go with BDP.

    On the other hand I'm member of a mini-party which does not participate in elections but just act as a NGO.
    I understand CHP is the old guard party of Ataturk (for many periods the single party state). They qualify as "left" because they are secular, nationalist, pro army, and statist/corporatist. In Western politics this would qualify them more like right-wing/fascist - not fascist like Hitler/Mussolini, but more like Spain/Portugal.

    Kemalism was a good thing for Turkey from the point of view of defending Turkey from external enemies and bringing secularism and modernisation, but it was negative for Turkey because in the same time blocked further progress towards a more free and open society, tolerance and democracy.
    Last edited by CiviC; February 18, 2011 at 07:45 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by CiviC View Post
    I understand CHP is the old guard party of Ataturk (for many periods the single party state). They qualify as "left" because they are secular, nationalist, pro army, and statist/corporatist. In Western politics this would qualify them more like right-wing/fascist - not fascist like Hitler/Mussolini, but more like Spain/Portugal.

    Kemalism was a good thing for Turkey from the point of view of defending Turkey from external enemies and bringing secularism and modernisation, but it was negative for Turkey because in the same time blocked further progress towards a more free and open society, tolerance and democracy.
    pretty much like that

    ps: Disadvantage of BDP is that it has members that are nationalist-like(Kurdish)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    Do you know exactly what they have proclaimed concerning the Aegean Sea?
    Is there for example any party that has proclaimed it will back down and stay neutral in the Aegean Sea?
    I do not think anyone will voice that..it's really not an issue in Turkey worth mentioning. It could only lead to further unnecessary argumenets(going from parties points of view)
    Besides, believe me, it is not a big issue and can be solved between governments if taken seriously. But there is much more important stuff to deal with I'd say. Look from the fun side, nationalist Greeks are excited when they read "Turkey is about to attack us" stuff.
    Last edited by dogukan; February 18, 2011 at 07:54 AM.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  6. #6
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I do not think anyone will voice that..it's really not an issue in Turkey worth mentioning. It could only lead to further unnecessary argumenets(going from parties points of view)
    Besides, believe me, it is not a big issue and can be solved between governments if taken seriously. But there is much more important stuff to deal with I'd say. Look from the fun side, nationalist Greeks are excited when they read "Turkey is about to attack us" stuff.
    Yeah, I'm just asking because the Aegean Sea is vital to Turkey and I guess that makes up the Aegean dispute a primary matter in Turkey's foreign policy.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    nice thread darklord



    Well with it's stand BDP fits that most, and thats the party I'm gonna vote for.
    Others do not contain all at the same time sadly.
    I will never feel okay with CHP because of their Atatürk craziness, I believe they will never be totally free in their minds, sadly many radical left people vote for that party. But thats probably just to stop liberal conservative AKP from getting more power.

    It is also worth mentioning that in Turkey, what defines left is secularism and anti-imperialism...which I believe is wrong(it should be based on anti-capitalism).Since I'm not for a parliementer system ideally, but for a people's revolution I'll just go with BDP.

    On the other hand I'm member of a mini-party which does not participate in elections but just act as a NGO.
    Dude, are u serious about that? Just because u are commie? That's the reason u like to chose marxist and seperatist supporters? Do you still belive in the world revolution? Thank god that many kurds aren't that ideologists.
    "I warn every animal on this farm to keep his eyes very wide open."
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    NASA's biggest blunder was not having Neil Armstrong say, " That's one small step for man,....hey, that looks like gold!"


  8. #8
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    An interesting thread indeed.
    I don't know much about Turkish politics so I don't know what to ask first.
    Let's at least hope that the new Turkish government -if it's not the AKP- will cooperate more with Greece and solve their problems.
    Is there any chance that the new government -if again it's not the current one- will pursue a more aggressive policy concerning things in the Aegean Sea?
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    An interesting thread indeed.
    I don't know much about Turkish politics so I don't know what to ask first.
    Let's at least hope that the new Turkish government -if it's not the AKP- will cooperate more with Greece and solve their problems.
    Is there any chance that the new government -if again it's not the current one- will pursue a more aggressive policy concerning things in the Aegean Sea?
    MHP, HEPAR,BBP...I doubt anyone out of these would purse aggressive policies, in any way to any country.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  10. #10
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    MHP, HEPAR,BBP...I doubt anyone out of these would purse aggressive policies, in any way to any country.
    Do you know exactly what they have proclaimed concerning the Aegean Sea?
    Is there for example any party that has proclaimed it will back down and stay neutral in the Aegean Sea?
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  11. #11

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by CiviC View Post
    Why is BDP listed to "others"? Just because is Kurdish and it should be marginalised?
    I wouldn't vote for any party as I know very little about them. Is there any non islamist, non nationalist, non fundamentalist secularist, anti army interference in politics, libertarian socially, center economically, promoting human rights, open and free society, respect for minorities (ethnic and religious) and peacefull relations with neighbours and the region and EU integration?
    The ones in the poll are the ones to be known to pass the election threshold. BDP and it's predecessors haven't managed to get close to it. Not having it in the poll doesn't marginalize it and for the rest of your questions CHP fits the best.


    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I will never feel okay with CHP because of their Atatürk craziness, I believe they will never be totally free in their minds, sadly many radical left people vote for that party. But thats probably just to stop liberal conservative AKP from getting more power.
    One thing to note though CHP was the one responsible for doing much of what BDP claims to do. A lot of the rights of Kurds were given back by proposals submitted by CHP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    An interesting thread indeed.
    I don't know much about Turkish politics so I don't know what to ask first.
    Let's at least hope that the new Turkish government -if it's not the AKP- will cooperate more with Greece and solve their problems.
    Is there any chance that the new government -if again it's not the current one- will pursue a more aggressive policy concerning things in the Aegean Sea?
    MHP and BBP are the ones that would take a more harsh stand though BBP doesn't get much vote to elect any members into the parliament. The leader enters as an independent to get elected while MHP passes the threshold but doesn't end up getting much power also.

    For the rest there is no risk of severing ties with Greece or anything like that. The national policy is above party policy. As expected all these parties have some experience and they won't start making any trouble in Aegean hurting the status quo.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkLordSeth View Post
    The ones in the poll are the ones to be known to pass the election threshold. BDP and it's predecessors haven't managed to get close to it. Not having it in the poll doesn't marginalize it and for the rest of your questions CHP fits the best.
    Except that CHP is secularist fundamentalist, pro army involvment in politics, kemalist/nationalist, not minority friendly, not for a true free and open society, pro statist/corporatist.

    And BDP is marginalised as they should get most votes from Kurdish minority, but somehow they can't make it. In Romania the Hungarian minority party matches in elections the percentage of Hungarian ethnics. I know what you gonna say about Kurds, they are very few or they are loyal Turkish citizens, etc., I don't buy it so don't bother.
    Last edited by CiviC; February 18, 2011 at 08:29 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by CiviC View Post
    Except that CHP is secularist fundamentalist, pro army involvment in politics, kemalist/nationalist, not minority friendly, not for a true free and open society, pro statist/corporatist.
    That
    Except, I'd say CHP is close to center economically speaking., but would seem like a statist beside a party like AKP.

    CHP claims it is a "social democrat" party, but it does't fit most of the qualities. How can a party that has certain values that are "unquestionable" libertarian?

    They are not minority friendly(nor hostile), nor anti-army. Although there had been some significant changes recently with Kılıçdaroğlu the base of the party and lower ranks still contain these. As said before, CHP is more like the fascist(not in the aggressive way) parties of Spain, Portugal.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  14. #14

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by CiviC View Post
    Except that CHP is secularist fundamentalist, pro army involvment in politics, kemalist/nationalist, not minority friendly, not for a true free and open society, pro statist/corporatist.

    And BDP is marginalised as they should get most votes from Kurdish minority, but somehow they can't make it. In Romania the Hungarian minority party matches in elections the percentage of Hungarian ethnics. I know what you gonna say about Kurds, they are very few or they are loyal Turkish citizens, etc., I don't buy it so don't bother.
    Well, feel free to show the signs of what you claim CHP is to be but at least given the fact that CHP was banned from politics between 1980 and 1992 by the army I know them to not be pro-army involvement in politics. Another factor is for many decades CHP have been a place where many Kurdish people entered politics and as an example CHP was the first party to act against the ban on Kurdish and lift it.

    On the other hand the reason BDP fails is simply because it doesn't represent the Kurdic population of Turkey as a whole. If they did BDP, or DTP in the past would get more than 10% of the votes. I was not surprised to see a few months ago, the leader of one of the largest Kurdish tribes in Turkey speaking against them and basically saying that what BDP says is not what they want to say as the Kurdish population.
    The Armenian Issue
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  15. #15

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by CiviC View Post
    Except that CHP is secularist fundamentalist, pro army involvment in politics, kemalist/nationalist, not minority friendly, not for a true free and open society, pro statist/corporatist.
    If we were back in the 1970s or even 1980s, I would agree with you. But CHP has changed quite a bit in recent years, particularly after the exit of Deniz Baykal. In fact, many of the negative aspect you describe have been shelved to one degree or another, or are only used to put the AKP in a difficult position.

    That said, the CHP has long way to go before I would consider it ready for the 21st century, even though I usually vote for them (more because I don't like the other parties, not because I like the CHP). I think the CHP's biggest problem is the mentality that it should be imposing secularism on Turkish society, rather than simply abiding by its principles. Unfortunately, most if not all Turkish political parties seek to impose their views through democratic means, rather than trying to reflect the positions of those who elected them. In this sense, the Turkish political culture still needs to mature, frankly speaking. The concept of a ruling party serving the interests of ALL Turkish citizens, instead of only the interests of those that voted for it is the biggest lesson that needs to be learned, IMO.

    The AKP's novelty was that it appealed to a much larger part of Turkish society, but it still only tries to serve the interests of that part, at the expense of the others. This, IMO, has become more evident the longer the AKP has remained in power. Erdogan is increasingly compared to Putin in academic circles, whereas he was once compared to Merkel or Sarkozy in the early 2000s. I do think that the AKP's time in power has shaken loose some of the old foundations of the Turkish political system, however, and for the better. Basically, it has snapped some of the older parties out of their paralysis, though they are still struggling to reform themselves.

    And BDP is marginalised as they should get most votes from Kurdish minority, but somehow they can't make it. In Romania the Hungarian minority party matches in elections the percentage of Hungarian ethnics. I know what you gonna say about Kurds, they are very few or they are loyal Turkish citizens, etc., I don't buy it so don't bother.
    Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant. The facts are on the table. The BDP is a fringe party that espouses a specific brand of Kurdish nationalism that is inspired (though not necessarily controled) by Abdullah Ocalan. This simply doesn't appeal to most Kurdish-origin Turkish citizens, who are increasingly recognizing that provocations (i.e., riots) don't help them address their main problems, namely poverty and cultural rights. The one good thing about the BDP is that they force the bigger parties to pay attention to these problems, despite the fact that their approach is often counter-productive. In that sense, they are both part of the solution and the problem.
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    Protected by the Legion of Rahl
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    I am a spark, soon to become a flame, and grow into an inferno...

  16. #16

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    So, the 3 main choices are: Ottomanism, Socialism and Islamism. I'm not sure what's the lesser evil.

  17. #17
    ♔Goodguy1066♔'s Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    So, the 3 main choices are: Ottomanism, Socialism and Islamism. I'm not sure what's the lesser evil.
    Not that those are the ideologies, but if they were you really can't pick which one is the lesser evil?
    Hmm, Turkish Imperialism, Islamic theocracy, or equality and power to the people? What exactly is so evil about the socialist ideology?
    A member of the Most Ancient, Puissant and Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers
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    Both male and female walruses have tusks and have been observed using these overgrown teeth to help pull themselves out of the water.

    The mustached and long-tusked walrus is most often found near the Arctic Circle, lying on the ice with hundreds of companions. These marine mammals are extremely sociable, prone to loudly bellowing and snorting at one another, but are aggressive during mating season. With wrinkled brown and pink hides, walruses are distinguished by their long white tusks, grizzly whiskers, flat flipper, and bodies full of blubber.
    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
    The walrus' other characteristic features are equally useful. As their favorite meals, particularly shellfish, are found near the dark ocean floor, walruses use their extremely sensitive whiskers, called mustacial vibrissae, as detection devices. Their blubbery bodies allow them to live comfortably in the Arctic region—walruses are capable of slowing their heartbeats in order to withstand the polar temperatures of the surrounding waters.
    The two subspecies of walrus are divided geographically. Atlantic walruses inhabit coastal areas from northeastern Canada to Greenland, while Pacific walruses inhabit the northern seas off Russia and Alaska, migrating seasonally from their southern range in the Bering Sea—where they are found on the pack ice in winter—to the Chukchi Sea. Female Pacific walruses give birth to calves during the spring migration north.
    Only Native Americans are currently allowed to hunt walruses, as the species' survival was threatened by past overhunting. Their tusks, oil, skin, and meat were so sought after in the 18th and 19th centuries that the walrus was hunted to extinction in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and around Sable Island, off the coast of Nova Scotia.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    ---
    "Surely Allah enjoins to do justice and to adopt good behavior and to give help to relatives-neighours(whoever you can reach), and forbids shameful acts, evil deeds and oppressive attitude. He exhorts you, so that you may be mindful." Qur'an; 16:90 (this is the verse that is recited every friday in sermons during the Friday Prayer rituals)
    "Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." Prophet Muhammad

  19. #19

    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Goodguy1066♔ View Post
    What exactly is so evil about the socialist ideology?
    not the ideology, but the people related with it in the past. (see: stalin, mao etc.)
    "Surely Allah enjoins to do justice and to adopt good behavior and to give help to relatives-neighours(whoever you can reach), and forbids shameful acts, evil deeds and oppressive attitude. He exhorts you, so that you may be mindful." Qur'an; 16:90 (this is the verse that is recited every friday in sermons during the Friday Prayer rituals)
    "Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." Prophet Muhammad

  20. #20
    ♔Goodguy1066♔'s Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 2011 Turkish General Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by maerd2003 View Post
    not the ideology, but the people related with it in the past. (see: stalin, mao etc.)
    But he's ruling out this socialist party because of them, and comparing it to Islamism and Imperialism. Socialism is in fact very idealistic, striving to build a society which is better not for a small group of like minded people, but for each and every citizen. How on Earth can one label such an idealistic ideology as evil?
    A member of the Most Ancient, Puissant and Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers
    Secret Sig Content Box!

    Both male and female walruses have tusks and have been observed using these overgrown teeth to help pull themselves out of the water.

    The mustached and long-tusked walrus is most often found near the Arctic Circle, lying on the ice with hundreds of companions. These marine mammals are extremely sociable, prone to loudly bellowing and snorting at one another, but are aggressive during mating season. With wrinkled brown and pink hides, walruses are distinguished by their long white tusks, grizzly whiskers, flat flipper, and bodies full of blubber.
    Walruses use their iconic long tusks for a variety of reasons, each of which makes their lives in the Arctic a bit easier. They use them to haul their enormous bodies out of frigid waters, thus their "tooth-walking" label, and to break breathing holes into ice from below. Their tusks, which are found on both males and females, can extend to about three feet (one meter), and are, in fact, large canine teeth, which grow throughout their lives. Male walruses, or bulls, also employ their tusks aggressively to maintain territory and, during mating season, to protect their harems of females, or cows.
    The walrus' other characteristic features are equally useful. As their favorite meals, particularly shellfish, are found near the dark ocean floor, walruses use their extremely sensitive whiskers, called mustacial vibrissae, as detection devices. Their blubbery bodies allow them to live comfortably in the Arctic region—walruses are capable of slowing their heartbeats in order to withstand the polar temperatures of the surrounding waters.
    The two subspecies of walrus are divided geographically. Atlantic walruses inhabit coastal areas from northeastern Canada to Greenland, while Pacific walruses inhabit the northern seas off Russia and Alaska, migrating seasonally from their southern range in the Bering Sea—where they are found on the pack ice in winter—to the Chukchi Sea. Female Pacific walruses give birth to calves during the spring migration north.
    Only Native Americans are currently allowed to hunt walruses, as the species' survival was threatened by past overhunting. Their tusks, oil, skin, and meat were so sought after in the 18th and 19th centuries that the walrus was hunted to extinction in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and around Sable Island, off the coast of Nova Scotia.

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