Would you consider this to be shocking and disgraceful bit of religious discrimination in the UK?

[Helm]

• "In 2008, co-founder of the Church of Jediism Barney Jones and his cousin Michael were attacked as they were playing with lightsabers by drunken Arwel Wynne Hughes. He was dressed in a black bin bag and beat the two cousins with a metal crutch, resulting in a headache and bruising for the two victims.

• In the drafting of the UK Racial and Religious Hatred Act, an amendment was proposed which specifically excluded Jedi Knights from any protection, alongside Satanists, Scientologists, sexists, racists, and believers in animal or human sacrifice.

• On September 17, 2009, Church of Jediism founder, Daniel Jones, was banned from a Tesco Supermarket in Bangor, North Wales for refusing to remove his hood on a religious basis.

• On March 7, 2010, Jediism was excluded in a U.K. act protecting organizations such as the Church of Scientology from discrimination. A Times report referring to the decision said "beliefs had to be heartfelt".

• On March 17, 2010, Chris Jarvis, a member of the Church of Jediism was thrown out of a Jobcentre in Southend, Essex for refusing to remove his hood. He later received a formal apology from the Jobcentre."

So do you think the Jedi should have equal rights to any other religious belief and the right to wear the hood in public? We have over 700,000 Jedi Knights in the UK, that's more Jedi than Hindu's and they have their rights recognised.


"In the UK the number of people who answered Jedi, were greater than many other common Christian denominations. In fact, in the UK, 2% of people in Brighton are of the Jedi Faith."

That's significant isn't it?

[hellheaven1987]

I wonder why Satanist cannot receive protection.

[Vagn]

I wonder why Satanist cannot receive protection.

Why is Scientology classed as a heartfelt belief if Jediism is not, I'd say they are both as valid as one another, only difference is Scientology has been labelled a cult in a previous court ruling by the House of Lords IIRC. Oh and the Church of Scientology is richer of course.

[Denny Crane!]

Number of adherents I guess, genuine ones. It is seen as a joke belief which it is, I don't know of anyone actually taking it seriously no matter what the census says.

[justicar5]

Number of adherents I guess, genuine ones. It is seen as a joke belief which it is, I don't know of anyone actually taking it seriously no matter what the census says.

Threre are entire religions based on not taking them selfs seriously..discordianism and the Cult of the Sub-Genius spring directly to mind, does an aknowledgement that they can be seen as frivilous and silly make the belief in them less real? Or just less up themselves then other religions?

[Denny Crane!]

Threre are entire religions based on not taking them selfs seriously..discordianism and the Cult of the Sub-Genius spring directly to mind, does an aknowledgement that they can be seen as frivilous and silly make the belief in them less real? Or just less up themselves then other religions?

If they don't take it seriously, then they aren't a religion. If they use humour to propagate a valid belief then they are taking the valid belief seriously.

[justicar5]

If they don't take it seriously, then they aren't a religion. If they use humour to propagate a valid belief then they are taking the valid belief seriously.

They don't take themselves seriously, thats not quite the same thing, (besides Discordianism, as implied by the name, is the worship of chaos, as in flux and change, it's erm..odd to say the least) and the cult of the Sub-genius is a joke that ended up becoming serious, while remainingamusing.

[Denny Crane!]

They don't take themselves seriously, thats not quite the same thing, (besides Discordianism, as implied by the name, is the worship of chaos, as in flux and change, it's erm..odd to say the least) and the cult of the Sub-genius is a joke that ended up becoming serious, while remainingamusing.

Oh god the semantics...here was me thinking there might be some sense involved in this discussion.

Take themselves seriously is not referencing humour. Do they have prescribed meetings, is there a large membership, is there regular attendance, is there an organisation. So if there was one person who believed it then it isn't a religion it is just a crazy belief. If there are a group of people who say something on a census card but there is no organisation it is not serious and they aren't taking themselves seriously and thus require no legal defence or protection.

n the drafting of the UK Racial and Religious Hatred Act, an amendment was proposed which specifically excluded Jedi Knights from any protection, alongside Satanists, Scientologists, sexists, racists, and believers in animal or human sacrifice.[8]

On September 17, 2009, Church of Jediism founder, Daniel Jones, was banned from a Tesco Supermarket in Bangor, North Wales for refusing to remove his hood on a religious basis.[9]

On March 7, 2010, Jediism was excluded in a U.K. act protecting organizations such as the Church of

Scientology from discrimination. A Times report referring to the decision said "beliefs had to be heartfelt".[10]

On March 17, 2010, Chris Jarvis, a member of the Church of Jediism was thrown out of a Jobcentre in Southend, Essex for refusing to remove his hood. He later received a formal apology from the Jobcentre.[11

As the bold points out con artists are also exempt.

We only protect the nonsense stories that have been around for a long time and that take themselves very seriously in the UK. And I do hope that is the last time I need to post in this thread, as topics go this is not what I'd call scintilating.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

If they don't take it seriously, then they aren't a religion. If they use humour to propagate a valid belief then they are taking the valid belief seriously.

What about satanism?

and shouldn't the "sexist" qualification mean no abrahamic religions are "real" religions?

[Denny Crane!]

What about satanism?

and shouldn't the "sexist" qualification mean no abrahamic religions are "real" religions?

Satanism potentially should be allowed to be a religion I'd say but there is an obvious amount of prejudice due to a rather stupid choice of name (yay lets be controversial because...)

And the sexism part to do with Abrahamic religions is easily explained by the being older part. More acceptable nonsense is old nonsense in the UK.

[hellheaven1987]

Number of adherents I guess, genuine ones. It is seen as a joke belief which it is, I don't know of anyone actually taking it seriously no matter what the census says.

Any religion that involving an invisible one is a joke... That does not mean their rights been protected by state has to be removed.

[Denny Crane!]

Any religion that involving an invisible one is a joke... That does not mean their rights been protected by state has to be removed.

Me earlier on:

We only protect the nonsense stories that have been around for a long time and that take themselves very seriously in the UK. And I do hope that is the last time I need to post in this thread, as topics go this is not what I'd call scintilating.

Seriously did you see anything to argue with in my post?? Did it sound like I agree with religions? I do agree with a distinction between a serious lifelong devotion that people seriously care about and a joke that people are just doing for a laugh with no serious thought, aims or devotions though even if I think religion is a joke.

[Helm]

Some people do actually take Jediism seriously.

http://www.churchofjediism.org.uk/

It looks bit like Scientology, only I'm guessing it's cheaper in terms of loss of money and sanity.

[basics]

" Some people do actually take Jediism seriously. "

Helm,

Most if not all the religions of the world have a certain person from whom the religion stems, them becoming its saviour, its god, so therefore I have to ask you this, on whom do these Jediists see as their saviour, their god?

[Helm]

I have to ask you this, on whom do these Jediists see as their saviour, their god?

The living Force, note how at the end of Return of Jedi Darth Vader turned his back on the darkside of the Force and in so doing his immortal soul was saved, as Luke Skywalker saw at the end when he encountered Anakin Skywalker as he appeared in Revenge of the Sith standing next to Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi. All his past sins as Darth Vader were forgiven.

[Helm]

"Jedi believe in the Force, a specific energy that flows through all things and binds the universe together. They also believe that humans can tap into or shape the Force to unlock greater potential. Many Jedi also view themselves as guardians of truth, knowledge and justice, and actively promote such ideals.
While many Jedi consider their beliefs to be a religion, some prefer to label them as a philosophy, personal development movement, way-of-life, or lifestyle.
Jedi Religion, or Jediism, continues to be an incredibly decentralized system of belief. While various groups have sprung up to teach it to others, there remains a large amount of variance between individual Jedi and multiple Jedi organizations. Jedi teachings are generally considered suggestions and guides rather than rules, so the difference of teachings between groups is not necessarily viewed as improper or incorrect.
Origin

The Jedi were first mentioned in the 1977 movie Star Wars IV: A New Hope and remained central in the five subsequent Star Wars movies, along with novels and games also based in the Star Wars universe. While these sources are entirely fictional, their creator, George Lucas, researched a variety of religious perspectives during their creation. Daoism and Buddhism are the most obvious influences on his concept of Jedi, although there are many others."

It seems like a serious belief in a higher power to me, they're just calling it the Force and why not?

[Helm]

But look at all the good Scientology does in the world.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'll tell you whats good about Scientology though, it ends in ology and it contains most of the word science.

It seems to be spreading the far east as well unless he is in fact talking about something complety different because I wouldn't know and I wouldn't trust them.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Africa as well, I'm sure it does help people but t's a glorified and somewhat expensive self help course disguised as a religion.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Helm]

Normally a religion has to gain a certain following and to have been around for a certain length of time before it stops being a joke.

[hellheaven1987]

Normally a religion has to gain a certain following and to have been around for a certain length of time before it stops being a joke.

It is still a joke when you are worshipping a made-up character.

[Gromovnik]

"In 2008, co-founder of the Church of Jediism Barney Jones and his cousin Michael were attacked as they were playing with lightsabers by drunken Arwel Wynne Hughes. He was dressed in a black bin bag and beat the two cousins with a metal crutch, resulting in a headache and bruising for the two victims."
A drunken cripple managed to beat two Jedi knights with his crutch? He must be very good...