what the hell did you do to cavalry ai?

[TREG]

it's not just cavalry, though they have it the worst. it's much harder to line up a charge than in vanilla because cavalry will detour several units down the battle line away from the obvious target to chase a routing 20-man archer unit or something, and they don't pull away from melee anymore, either, choosing to stay and get slaughtered even when there's a clear exit and you give them multiple orders.

i had cavalry break off a charge at the last minute because the left flank of the enemy (which was a decimated unit of axemen) routed and they all stopped, turned, and chase that end off, despite me ordering them repeatedly to reform.

sorry about the title, i love the mod, and when cavalry do work they're much better than in vanilla! it's just the success rate of getting a charge, even in ideal circumstances, seems to have dropped off dramatically.

dunedain bodyguards are really good at what they do...

[Seleukos_I.]

Do you have your cavalry grouped by any chance?
I noticed that units will pretty much ignore your orders when they are attacking while grouped.

[jinjo]

Do you have your cavalry grouped by any chance?
I noticed that units will pretty much ignore your orders when they are attacking while grouped.

omg, is it correct? i always play with number-assigned groups, but i do quite well or this means i can do much better?

[Mikail Mengsk]

Do you have your cavalry grouped by any chance?
I noticed that units will pretty much ignore your orders when they are attacking while grouped.

This.

When grouped, orders are taken in a weird way. If you order a group of units to attack, each unit will attack the nearest target (or his personal primary target for archers) instead of the one you clicked onto. Also, their movement will be in some way impaired: grouped cavarlies are a little slower than individually-running cavalries because they will stop-and-resume running during the run.

Always deliver your orders to one unit at the time.

[TREG]

grouped as in selected or in a number-assigned group?

[Seleukos_I.]

number-assigned group

[TREG]

with infantry it doesn't seem to be a problem, archers it definitely is not. i think somehow the AI is getting confused because of how fluid cavalry groups are and it engages in melee/rout-chasing behavior automatically for some reason, probably a bug in the upgraded AI...

[slyder82]

Well I hope that is the case coz I have a similar problem with my archers and it gets really annoying. My archer units will fire on enemy units that are in combat with my melee units, but when I order them to change target to enemy archer units they refuse/don't and just keep firing on my own troops, so I just order them to stop firing all together when my other troops(melee) are in battle.

As for my cavalry, I have noticed that they don't always attack their intended targets, but that has only happened a few times and not enough to get frustrating.
Well I always use the number-assigned groups, so i will stop it and see if it makes an y difference.

[Deedlit]

Only problem i've encounted with caverly, is half of the time they ignore orders and just stand there, while im trying issue them an order such a charge over here or route this enemy. Even worse when im trying to pull from away from a battle. They just continue to fight and die. Sheesh,

[Seleukos_I.]

with infantry it doesn't seem to be a problem, archers it definitely is not. i think somehow the AI is getting confused because of how fluid cavalry groups are and it engages in melee/rout-chasing behavior automatically for some reason, probably a bug in the upgraded AI...

Actually, teh problem I had with groups were visible in archers. They alsways fire at the enemy unit that is closest to them when grouped and refuse to attack another unit. That's why I thought that groups could cause problems with cavalry too.

Well I hope that is the case coz I have a similar problem with my archers and it gets really annoying. My archer units will fire on enemy units that are in combat with my melee units, but when I order them to change target to enemy archer units they refuse/don't and just keep firing on my own troops, so I just order them to stop firing all together when my other troops(melee) are in battle.

See above. I stopped using groups and it works as it should.

[slyder82]

Actually, teh problem I had with groups were visible in archers. They alsways fire at the enemy unit that is closest to them when grouped and refuse to attack another unit. That's why I thought that groups could cause problems with cavalry too.


See above. I stopped using groups and it works as it should.

Thanks Seleukos, you wouldn't thinks that something as arbitrary as grouping your units could alter the way battle are fought in-game.
Cheers

[Shocked]

Even worse when im trying to pull from away from a battle. They just continue to fight and die. Sheesh,

That happens to me, just click (order them) to move away two or three times and they will do it, isn't that hard.

[Rora Lion]

Not to go against you guys, but I think that cavarly behaves quite normally, and certainly not worse than med 2 cavalry does. When pursuing it is even better. You just have to watch over them closely, even more than you do with other troops, for given a decent opposition they will be slaughtered if you leave them alone for more than 30 sconds. I'd say that TATW AI (or resulting behaviour) for cavalry is even superior to NTW one (4-5 years younger a program).

[Everto]

When it is to do with Archers, select each unit seperately and choose your target. Selecting, or grouping them all at once, and telling them to attack a singular target confuses the ai at times, and it just rejects the order. Click each unit individually and they WILL fire on desired target.

Remember, select archers individually, and order to fire individually on desired target. With cavalry I'm not to sure, will look into it though.

[W1Z21]

also gaurd mode helps too i find that when im attacking an enemy i use gaurd on calverey so they wont chase routing enemies and i also use number groups..

[clumsywordsmith]

The same goes for cavalry -- selecting units individually and ordering them to attack individually. Also, when moving any units into position on the map, you are making use of the click-and-drag feature, rather than just selecting a bunch of men and ordering them somewhere? If you don't, there's honestly no telling where the AI pathfinding might find itself. I also make frequent use of shift and spacebar (shift will show you the target of any selected unit, spacebar the eventual destinations and formations of all moving units) in order to make certain that archers are firing at the proper targets and that cavalry are charging.

A few more tips -- turn off fire at will. Essentially, it gives the archer unit in question the go ahead to ignore orders as they please; they may fire one or two volleys at the intended target, but afterward will often switch targets just to piss you off. Disengaging cavalry (or any unit, for that matter) from a melee will often take multiple commands, and -- to the best of my knowledge -- this is not a bug. It's just one of the few parts of the TW series that actually reflects real life. Furthermore, when charging your cavalry, make sure that there will be no intercepting units between the cavalry and the targeted force; even an intercepting unit that appears to be too far to reach them might distract them to the point that they'll wheel about and charge them instead. Or often not charge, but simply jump straight to swords and the ensuing melee.

Just a few things I've learned over the month or so since I started poking about in the TW series, none of them "bugs" or "features" that are related strictly to this mod, but rather frustrations I've noticed since R:TW.

And not to go too off topic... but what's with Olog-hai climbing ladders? I mean, honestly! It put a serious cramp in one of my siege defense schemes, where I figured I'd have no trouble winning if I could use my cavalry and archers to keep orcs off the rams, and thus relegate the trolls to standing outside my walls twiddling their thumbs...

No luck. The fat bastards climbed straight up the ladders.

[Ariaci]

No luck. The fat bastards climbed straight up the ladders.

They are classified as infantry. Therefore they are able to clim ladders. Do not know if it is realistic but I lke it, makes seiges more difficult and interesting.

Ariaci

[Everto]

...and thus relegate the trolls to standing outside my walls twiddling their thumbs...

No luck. The fat bastards climbed straight up the ladders.

+rep on first post

[Túrin_Turambar]

maybe if one could make bigger ladders

[TREG]

can you still issue orders to grouped units individually or does the grouping itself cause screwups?