Viking Normandy

[diegis]

Now about the topic, there is someone who know when exactly was called first time Denmark (or Scandinavia) as Dacia?

Getwulf, i know about the Daci=Dani name, but i think Dio, or who write that, refered to Dacians as Dani because they lived near Danubius, and Dani means "peoples of Danubius".

As well, i think Dudo was pretty close to what happened there, since that period was one of many movements of peoples across Europe, and Rolo origin is still debated, his name is almost the same as Getae/Dacian Roles, and his origin place in Norman Chronicle is clearly the real, ancient Dacia as its described by Dudo.

[clandestino]

No it doesn't link it to any of that... Dacians-Danes had to be Haplo. I M 223 which is obviously I2b1, so Dacians were not Balkan people, regardless where I2 came from originally. Parvan and the other sources Cato, Dudo etc... are right afterall...!

Danes are mostly I1 ( M253 ) , Romanians are mostly I2a ( M423 ), I2b1 ( M223 ) is quite rare among both of the populations.

Haplogroup I2b1 has been found in over 4% of the population only in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, England (not including Wales or Cornwall), Scotland, and the southern tips of Sweden and Norway in Northwest Europe; the provinces of Normandy, Maine, Anjou, and Perche in northwestern France; the province of Provence in southeastern France; the regions of Tuscany, Umbria, and Latium in Italy; and Moldavia and the area around Russia's Ryazan Oblast and Republic of Mordovia in Eastern Europe.

Here is the frequency of I2b1 ( M223 ) among the Romanians, they are at about 1.9%, less then Gagauzes ( lol ) who have 4.2%. Compare that to I2a which has frequency of 40.7%, same like among Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats. This group is believed to be indigenous to Balkan for at least 20,000 years from there it spread to northern, eastern and central Europe.

[Getwulf]

Here is the frequency of I2b1 ( M223 ) among the Romanians, they are at about 1.9%, less then Gagauzes ( lol ) who have 4.2%. Compare that to I2a which has frequency of 40.7%, same like among Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats. This group is believed to be indigenous to Balkan for at least 20,000 years from there it spread to northern, eastern and central Europe.

I don't care...

Seriously... I just don't care.

Now about the topic, there is someone who know when exactly was called first time Denmark (or Scandinavia) as Dacia?

Getwulf, i know about the Daci=Dani name, but i think Dio, or who write that, refered to Dacians as Dani because they lived near Danubius, and Dani means "peoples of Danubius".

As well, i think Dudo was pretty close to what happened there, since that period was one of many movements of peoples across Europe, and Rolo origin is still debated, his name is almost the same as Getae/Dacian Roles, and his origin place in Norman Chronicle is clearly the real, ancient Dacia as its described by Dudo.

Yeah... I believe Denmark first has a mention of the Dacia name in the 7th C. AD... As for Dacians and Dani and the Danube... Well apparently the Danube is named after the Dani not the other way around.

What's interesting is that the Goths called the Danube "Dun" close to the same way we say "Dunare". I think we're the only ones in Europe that call it that.

[diegis]

...LOL...

No man, it just hit me when I re-read the sources that's all. I know no one here argued that.

I think it all makes a lot more sense if we think of the Dacians as North Germans that moved into "Romania"/Dacia during the 2nd C. BC... Along with the Basternae etc... It also explains why no one ever mentions the Dacians prior to that period in time. I mean, even Cato the Elder points to them being close to the Danes and that is around 2nd C. BC too... and V. Parvan said pretty much the same thing... Except, Parvan places their place of origin between Prussia and "Czechoslovakia"... and not to mention Dudo's many quotes. So yeah... I mean, it is also supported by a connection in Haplogroup I M 223... ...and it explains why Dudo got so confused and why Denmark was also called "Dacia" in Latin.



Come on... You have to admit... It makes a lot of sense.

Here i must contradict you my friend. It makes at least as much sense that some Dacians moved north, during Burebista empire and a group of rogue warriors escape the king autorithy and sail to Denmark, then Dudo mixed the periods a little, and a presumptive Roles back then with Rolo of his time, probably from the same origin.

Agrippa put the borders of Dacia on Baltic and Vistula (actualy here is a genetic study who mention a spread of I haplogroup from Romania to north, and is known some conection betwen romanian and even dacians, and baltic)

http://www.jogg.info/41/Wiik.pdf

<<It is particularly the Romanian
maximum that (according to the maps used) has influenced
the East European populations. There is in East
Europe a south-north gradient (from about 24-30% to
4%) extending from Romania to the Nenets territory in
the northeastern corner of Europe.>>

[diegis]

I don't care...

Seriously... I just don't care.



Yeah... I believe Denmark first has a mention of the Dacia name in the 7th C. AD... As for Dacians and Dani and the Danube... Well apparently the Danube is named after the Dani not the other way around.

What's interesting is that the Goths called the Danube "Dun" close to the same way we say "Dunare". I think we're the only ones in Europe that call it that.

Yes, we are the only ones who called like that, interesting. Parvan said it comes from a Dacian Donaris, but Dunaris sound even more close.

I read somewhere about a reconstructed Dacian inscription, "Aris noa Zeu", meaning "Aris our god". Aris is the god of war, the equivalent of greek Ares and roman Mars. Vegetius among others said that Dacians was so warlike that the legends said that Mars was born among them and Strabo if i am not mistake said that Getae/Dacians drink water from the Danube each time they go to war.

Jordanes tell us that Getae/Gots had a war god which they offer him preys and sacrifices (as prisoners killed), so Dun-Aris might be translated as "the river of the war god", the big river from which the soldiers drink water before to go to war

[clandestino]

I don't care...

Seriously... I just don't care.

Yes, you don't care about the facts, we know that already.

What's interesting is that the Goths called the Danube "Dun" close to the same way we say "Dunare". I think we're the only ones in Europe that call it that.

Uhm, Hungarians call it Duna and we call it Dunav, it seems you aren't the only ones to call it that way in Europe.
Keep on you two, it is very amusing to watch you fantasizing, I'll try to came up with some crazy theory as well to join you. I already gave little contribution, one Serbian 15th century biographer and another chronicler from the same period said that Dacians are Serbs, and we see that genetics back this up, we just need to somehow fit that with your theories about Danes and Goths and we are at it.

[Getwulf]

Here i must contradict you my friend. It makes at least as much sense that some Dacians moved north, during Burebista empire and a group of rogue warriors escape the king autorithy and sail to Denmark, then Dudo mixed the periods a little, and a presumptive Roles back then with Rolo of his time, probably from the same origin.

Agrippa put the borders of Dacia on Baltic and Vistula (actualy here is a genetic study who mention a spread of I haplogroup from Romania to north, and is known some conection betwen romanian and even dacians, and baltic)

http://www.jogg.info/41/Wiik.pdf

<<It is particularly the Romanian
maximum that (according to the maps used) has influenced
the East European populations. There is in East
Europe a south-north gradient (from about 24-30% to
4%) extending from Romania to the Nenets territory in
the northeastern corner of Europe.>>

Well during Buri's rule... and I think that besides Buri, Airmanareik was the only other true Thiudan...!? Who wants to take me up on that...? Like I was saying during Buri's rule they were called Getae and Buri was a Getae himself. I don't think that the Dacian name was ever used during... ohhh... 50 BC...

Not that it matters much...

As for the Dacians, I just don't know anymore. I don't even think that they were that significant for Romanians. They were probably useful due to the fact that they lost to the Romans. I mean, think how our country would have developed if all of our history would have been based on the Goths instead...!? But that would contradict the theory of "Romanization". So all of our historians concentrated on the Dacians instead. Why...? Well... Because they were very famous for losing to the Romans!

And yeah... your PDF Diegis shows a different DNA distribution... More in line with reality.

Yes, you don't care about the facts, we know that already.

Uhm, Hungarians call it Duna and we call it Dunav, it seems you aren't the only ones to call it that way in Europe.

Yeah... But they only learned to pronounce it that way from us.

[diegis]

Well during Buri's rule... and I think that besides Buri, Airmanareik was the only other true Thiudan...!? Who wants to take me up on that...? Like I was saying during Buri's rule they were called Getae and Buri was a Getae himself. I don't think that the Dacian name was ever used during... ohhh... 50 BC...

Not that it matters much...

As for the Dacians, I just don't know anymore. I don't even think that they were that significant for Romanians. They were probably useful due to the fact that they lost to the Romans. I mean, think how our country would have developed if all of our history would have been based on the Goths instead...!? But that would contradict the theory of "Romanization". So all of our historians concentrated on the Dacians instead. Why...? Well... Because they were very famous for losing to the Romans!

And yeah... your PDF Diegis shows a different DNA distribution... More in line with reality.



Yeah... But they only learned to pronounce it that way from us.

Well, my opinion is that Dacians was part of Getae (who was a much larger population), and at some point they became the most proeminent and powerful of them. Sure, they lost to Romans at some point, but Dio Crisostomus said that they are above any other barbarians and close to greeks, they have great fortresses, towns, with aqueducts and sewers, paved roads, etc., was quite powerful and developed.

[mircea]

Getwulf, your friends, the extraterrestrials are calling for you

Consider the names of the early characters… Dudo the writer of the text… would be Dudu, Dudesti or Dudescu in Romanian. Dudo is not a Northern European name…Rollo the founder of the House of Normandy would be Roles in Getic and Rollins in Romanian. We also have the family name Rollins in Romania but it was more likely than not brought over by the Saxons although very rarely one sometimes encounters forms of Role. I only know one person with that name. However, when it comes to Rollo’s wife Popa I can not see the connection to any other people other than Romanians as Popa as a family name is not encountered under any form in Northern Europe. At least, I don’t personally know of any equivalent.

Now I know what you’re going to say… “Phonetic similarities hold no merit!” AND yet what is the opposing argument for claiming that Dudo’s Dacians were actually “Danes”…? The fact that Denmark was also referred to as Dacia! Besides that the argument that Rollo was a “Viking” is pretty thin.

Everything you said here is a BIG lie and a proof that you are NOT a Romanian.
Romanian words Dudu, Dudesti or Dudescu are derivatives of the word "dud" (Mulberries), which originates from Turkish (dut, dud).
The family name Rollins is NOT Romanian, is a foreign name and reveals dishonesty. By the way, Rolex is similar to Roles, so OMG, Dacians invented Rolex watches.
Romanian name Popa stems from the old slavonic "popu" which gave the word "popa"(priest)in Romanian.

In conculsion, you theory is rubbish and Mr. Spielberg wants his SF story back

[Getwulf]

Getwulf, your friends, the extraterrestrials are calling for you



Everything you said here is a BIG lie and a proof that you are NOT a Romanian.
Romanian words Dudu, Dudesti or Dudescu are derivatives of the word "dud" (Mulberries), which originates from Turkish (dut, dud).
The family name Rollins is NOT Romanian, is a foreign name and reveals dishonesty. By the way, Rolex is similar to Roles, so OMG, Dacians invented Rolex watches.
Romanian name Popa stems from the old slavonic "popu" which gave the word "popa"(priest)in Romanian.

In conculsion, you theory is rubbish and Mr. Spielberg wants his SF story back

Yeah Mircea... I know what you are don't worry...!

As for the rest of us we'll get on with our lives.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

So diegis, here is an interesting question...

Why did "Romanians" bury their boats at the foundation of their churches...? Or... Why did they build the foundation of their churches in the shape of boats...?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnEz8YLOAxg

That's an YT video from an archeological site in Romania. Their explanation is just garbage and doesn't take into account this phenomenon.

[diegis]

So diegis, here is an interesting question...

Why did "Romanians" bury their boats at the foundation of their churches...? Or... Why did they build the foundation of their churches in the shape of boats...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnEz8YLOAxg

That's an YT video from an archeological site in Romania. Their explanation is just garbage and doesn't take into account this phenomenon.

Well, its the first time i saw this, it is intriguing indeed

[clandestino]

Yeah... But they only learned to pronounce it that way from us.

Oh really, and what happened to the -rea part, we and Hungarins didn't here you right? Also it seems that Romans haven't learned it correctly as well, they called it Danubius.
And who is ''you'' currently? Getae, Goths, Dacians, Danes...? I can't keep up with the progress of your theory, it seems that every time you bump on to some new stupid reading you implement it to your theory making it even more ludicrous.

And yeah... your PDF Diegis shows a different DNA distribution... More in line with reality.

Uhm, now I'm definitely sure that something is wrong with your eye-sight, the paper clearly says that I haplogroup dominant in Romania is I2 ( I1b1 P-37 in old nomenclature ) same as the Balkans ( page 60 ) while in northern Europe it is I1 ( I1a M-253 in old nomenclature, page 57 ). On the page 46-47 you have the maps showing the spread of these haplogroups corroborating this, haplogroup I subclades in northern Europe are definitely different then ones in Balkan and Romania, the groups M-253 and M-223 are only 1.7 and 1.9% among Romanians compared to 55.7% and 3.6% among the Swedes.

[Tiberios]

I don't care...

Seriously... I just don't care.

Yes it has become quite clear that you don't care about facts.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Which one?

Post 62


@ Getwulf, and you've lost it.

[Ciabhán]

No more off topic posting, personal references, insults, obscene content, censor bypasses, or other violations will be tolerated in this thread. Any further violations by posters will result in the thread being closed and in a liberal handing out of warnings.

Thanks,

-Ciabhan

[Erebus Pasha]

Post 62


@ Getwulf, and you've lost it.

Hmm...not in the slightest. Dudo as a primary source is questionable and the notion of a direct link between Medieval Romania and Normandy is plainly ridiculous so no I have not given any bad examples. The founders of the Duchy of Normandy were 'Viking' raiders who adopted a French language and culture within a generation or two. As for the other points - Roles and Oroles were Latinized names of Geto-Dacian leaders given by the Romans and the descendants of Medieval Denmark were the tribes that inhabited the region at the time - Dani and the Jutii and not some well travelled Dacians that decided to travel north.

Like I say it is up to you and the likes of Getwulf and Diegis to prove this far fetched theory of 'Dacians' being responsible for the foundation of Medieval Normandy.

[Hrobatos]

is this thread a joke or some people here actualy suggest that Danes are Dacians? its not 1. Aprili so Im not sure

[Carpathian Wolf]

Hmm...not in the slightest. Dudo as a primary source is questionable and the notion of a direct link between Medieval Romania and Normandy is plainly ridiculous so no I have not given any bad examples. The founders of the Duchy of Normandy were 'Viking' raiders who adopted a French language and culture within a generation or two. As for the other points - Roles and Oroles were Latinized names of Geto-Dacian leaders given by the Romans and the descendants of Medieval Denmark were the tribes that inhabited the region at the time - Dani and the Jutii and not some well travelled Dacians that decided to travel north.

Like I say it is up to you and the likes of Getwulf and Diegis to prove this far fetched theory of 'Dacians' being responsible for the foundation of Medieval Normandy.

I was referring to your Holland example. You gave a bad example and then applied it across the board.

is this thread a joke or some people here actualy suggest that Danes are Dacians? its not 1. Aprili so Im not sure

My only thing is I think that the chronicle describing Dacia pretty accurately.

[Manco]

Accurately? He merely says it has a crown of mountains and is between Alania and Greece.
That's a pretty vague description and doesn't actually say anything beyond that Dudo mistook one Dacia for another.

[Carpathian Wolf]

There is nothing to that description except the Carpathian mountains.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&s...i=g10&aql=&oq=