Viking Normandy

[Entropy Judge]

Yeah, notice Haplogroup I m223… Found in Denmark, Normandy/Brittany, Romania and Netherlands exclusively!!!

And the Ukraine and ... whatever those two little subdivisions between Romania and the Ukraine are. So the Ukrainians are Dacians and Danes, too. And maybe the Cossacks!

And, since Galicia is a name for the eastern part of the Ukraine *and* for part of northwest Spain, that menas that the Spanish are Dacians too! And since Spain was known as Iberia, and there was *another* Iberia on the other side of the Black Sea, maybe *they're* Dacians too!

...

That said, as near as I can tell, all haplogroups do is identify which populations are genetically the same/similar. Just because there are two groups that have the same haplogroup does not mean they're the same people.

[Getwulf]

And the Ukraine and ... whatever those two little subdivisions between Romania and the Ukraine are. So the Ukrainians are Dacians and Danes, too. And maybe the Cossacks!

And, since Galicia is a name for the eastern part of the Ukraine *and* for part of northwest Spain, that menas that the Spanish are Dacians too! And since Spain was known as Iberia, and there was *another* Iberia on the other side of the Black Sea, maybe *they're* Dacians too!

...

That said, as near as I can tell, all haplogroups do is identify which populations are genetically the same/similar. Just because there are two groups that have the same haplogroup does not mean they're the same people.

Don't ignore the other arguments... I actually don't even care anymore...! Well... now that I found out that I'm not actually a Dacian...

[CiviC]

Actually there are 2 main I haplogrups :

I1 :



and I2

[piroska]

Don't ignore the other arguments... I actually don't even care anymore...! Well... now that I found out that I'm not actually a Dacian...

you are vlach from macedonia

[clandestino]

Yeah, notice Haplogroup I m223… Found in Denmark, Normandy/Brittany, Romania and Netherlands exclusively!!!

So yeah, it’s true…! Dacians = Danes = Dutch...

Is there any science you haven't misunderstood and misinterpreted in your ridiculous quest, first history, now genetics, what's next chemistry? First, the subclade of haplogroup I found in Norway, Sweden and Danemark is I1 with M253 mutation, on the other hand subclade found in Romania is I2 with M423 mutation that haplogroup has it's peak in western and central Balkan, in Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia. To quote:

I2a2-M423 (L178, M423) I2a2a-L69.2 (L69.2(=T)/S163.2) Typical of the Balkan populations, especially the populations of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia; also found with high frequency in Moldavia and Romania and high haplotype diversity values, but lower overall frequency, among the populations of Slovakia and the Czech Republic

Civic's maps go nicely with the explanation.

[Getwulf]

you are vlach from macedonia

I updated my profile with the new information...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=74505

Getting closer to truth everyday... inch by inch...!

Is there any science you haven't misunderstood and misinterpreted in your ridiculous quest, first history, now genetics, what's next chemistry? First, the subclade of haplogroup I found in Norway, Sweden and Danemark is I1 with M253 mutation, on the other hand subclade found in Romania is I2 with M423 mutation that haplogroup has it's peak in western and central Balkan, in Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia. To quote:


Civic's maps go nicely with the explanation.

Yeah OK...

So which one does Haplogroup I M 223 belong to...? Because I don't know...

[clandestino]

To I2, it's I2b1 to be more specific:

I2b1-M223 (L34, L36, L59, M223, P219/S24, P220/S119, P221/S120, P222/U250/S118, P223/S117) Occurs at a moderate frequency among populations of Northwest Europe, with a peak frequency in the region of Lower Saxony in central Germany; minor offshoots appear in Moldavia and Russia (especially around Vladimir, Ryazan, Nizhny Novgorod, and the Republic of Mordovia)

Also one minor notice, haplogroups don't indicate ethnicities because they predate all ethnicities for thousands years, and are spread among various populations, for example R1a is spread from Iceland to central Asia among something like 100 different ethnic groups and people.

[Getwulf]

To I2, it's I2b1 to be more specific:


Also one minor notice, haplogroups don't indicate ethnicities because they predate all ethnicities for thousands years, and are spread among various populations, for example R1a is spread from Iceland to central Asia among something like 100 different ethnic groups and people.

I don't care about any of that...!!!

I asked you which one does Haplogroup I M 223 actually belong to so answer the question already.

[clandestino]

I don't care about any of that...!!!

I asked you which one does Haplogroup I M 223 actually belong to so answer the question already.

attack of blindness, ey?

Originally Posted by clandestino
To I2, it's I2b1 to be more specific:

Keep on with the amusement of the masses, you do it well, much better then handling history.

[Getwulf]

attack of blindness, ey?



Keep on with the amusement of the masses, you do it well, much better then handling history.

Yup... that's it...

"I2b1-M223 (L34, L36, L59, M223, P219/S24, P220/S119, P221/S120, P222/U250/S118, P223/S117) Occurs at a moderate frequency among populations of Northwest Europe, with a peak frequency in the region of Lower Saxony in central Germany; minor offshoots appear in Moldavia and Russia (especially around Vladimir, Ryazan, Nizhny Novgorod, and the Republic of Mordovia)"

So what...?

It is still North German... Fits in with my argument...

Just for the record I don't like you and I never really read what you say...

[Manco]

Oh god, you're looking at it upside down.

People aren't Northwestern European because of the haplogroup, but the haplogroup is considered NW European because of the people.

[CiviC]

It is still North German... Fits in with my argument...

Just for the record I don't like you and I never really read what you say...

Actually this particular haplogroup occuring in Moldavia and Ukraine demonstrates the migration of Goths from Baltic shores to the residence of Goths in 3rd c. A.D.

Oh god, you're looking at it upside down.

People aren't Northwestern European because of the haplogroup, but the haplogroup is considered NW European because of the people.

The most common explanation for I haplogroup is that during the Last Glacial Maximum a group of people lived in isolation in Balkans and I haplogroup originated here. After the LGM, a part of them migrated North where they evolved in I1, the remaining people in Balkans evolved in I2.

[clandestino]

Just for the record I don't like you and I never really read what you say...

Isn't that obvious, I mean that you only read what suits you ( and which is obviously very poor and dubious stuff... )
Anyway if you tried to research a little more seriously, which is apparently above you, you would see one very interesting stuff, and that is that I2b is found in very small percentages among the Romanians ( some 2% ) compared to I2a, even in Hungary percent is 2,5%. The main subclade in Romania is I2a ( maybe up to 40% ), same as in Balkan and quite different then northern Europe, so genetics fails you. If this shows anything it is that south Slavic populations of southern Europe and Romanians have great deal of shared genetic ancestry, which is obvious due to same Illyrian-Dacian-Thracian substrate.

[Getwulf]

Oh god, you're looking at it upside down.

People aren't Northwestern European because of the haplogroup, but the haplogroup is considered NW European because of the people.

Yeah Manco... you're right. But in the case of the Dacians there are lots of sources to go along with it.

At first I thought V. Parvan all the way back in 1919 was mad to suggest it but... it turns out that, that is what happened. So yeah... Dacians aren't actually from Romania originally...

It took me a long time to figure that out...

Anyway, back to the history part...

[Getwulf]

The main subclade in Romania is I2a ( maybe up to 40% ), same as in Balkan and quite different then northern Europe, so genetics fails you. If this shows anything it is that south Slavic populations of southern Europe and Romanians have great deal of shared genetic ancestry, which is obvious due to same Illyrian-Dacian-Thracian substrate.

No it doesn't link it to any of that... Dacians-Danes had to be Haplo. I M 223 which is obviously I2b1, so Dacians were not Balkan people, regardless where I2 came from originally. Parvan and the other sources Cato, Dudo etc... are right afterall...!

[Manco]

FFS, you just read into posts whatever you want.

And what do you mean Dacians aren't from "Romania" originally?
Culturally they're of course part of the same Indo-European migrations as nearly all of Europe.
Genetically they'll be mostly descended form the Carpathian refugium with a sizeable Anatolian and Ukranian Refugium element, but eventually harking back to Europe's original settlement

[Getwulf]

FFS, you just read into posts whatever you want.

And what do you mean Dacians aren't from "Romania" originally?
Culturally they're of course part of the same Indo-European migrations as nearly all of Europe.
Genetically they'll be mostly descended form the Carpathian refugium with a sizeable Anatolian and Ukranian Refugium element, but eventually harking back to Europe's original settlement

I don't think that any of that matters in the period of 2nd C. BC - 10th C. AD... there is no way that they called themselves Dacians during the Carpathian refugium period... At least not that I know of...

The sources seem to have it right...

Danes->Dacians... And they came from the North... Dudo then just confused that association in the 11th C. AD. ... So yeah... You're right...

I concede the point...

I just wished I'd figured this out sooner.

[Manco]

Christ, that's not the point of what we're saying at all.

Literally noone here has argued that Denmark/Scandinavia being called Dacia means that the Dacians are descended from the Dani or came from the same general region. That's just some kooky theory you just dreamed up.

[Manco]

, because of this chant

I so hope you're joking

[Getwulf]

Christ, that's not the point of what we're saying at all.

Literally noone here has argued that Denmark/Scandinavia being called Dacia means that the Dacians are descended from the Dani or came from the same general region. That's just some kooky theory you just dreamed up.

...LOL...

No man, it just hit me when I re-read the sources that's all. I know no one here argued that.

I think it all makes a lot more sense if we think of the Dacians as North Germans that moved into "Romania"/Dacia during the 2nd C. BC... Along with the Basternae etc... It also explains why no one ever mentions the Dacians prior to that period in time. I mean, even Cato the Elder points to them being close to the Danes and that is around 2nd C. BC too... and V. Parvan said pretty much the same thing... Except, Parvan places their place of origin between Prussia and "Czechoslovakia"... and not to mention Dudo's many quotes. So yeah... I mean, it is also supported by a connection in Haplogroup I M 223... ...and it explains why Dudo got so confused and why Denmark was also called "Dacia" in Latin.



Come on... You have to admit... It makes a lot of sense.