Goverment Determination

[Didz]

One of the first things I go for when I have captured a barbarian settlement is Government Determination. But having got to the point where I have to make a choice between 'Annex Region' or 'Client or Allied State' I find my finger hovering over the choice and no real clue which to go for. In fact, in some cases I've deliberately not made a choice, so for instance Massalia is still of indeterminate status within my Empire as I find it easier to choose something else to build that make the choice.

Likewise, where I already have client city states like Arretium, Ariminum, Capau and Cannae I puzzle over the decision on when and if to offer them 'Citisenship'.

Does anyone have any preferences, or guidance on when and if to choose these options?

[ImperatorCaesar]

Both Annex Region, and Allied State have their own good qualities. If you want a good tax increase, but can afford a decrease in overall happiness, then choose Annex Region. Likewise, if you want happiness, but a decrease in the amount of taxes, then click on Allied State. I just do it based upon what the settlement really needs.

As for citizenship, I try and keep it only in Rome for the beginning of the game and for the first 20-30 years. After that, I slowly start giving it to the towns closer to Rome, trying to be a bit historical. All of Italy only got citizenship after the Social War in 90 BC, so you may want to wait some time before using it.

Keep in mind, Citizenship is required to get the legions after the reforms.

[SMoVader]

Annex Region gives a trade bonus, not a tax bonus from what I remember and it's not really that useful imo. Especially when you get further away as the large decrease in public order can be difficult to handle plus the lowered law gives more corruption .

[Didz]

Keep in mind, Citizenship is required to get the legions after the reforms.

Ah! I didn't know that. Thats useful information.

I just wasted 10,000 denarii making a Gallic city a client state. I did it with the intention of raising an field Legion of Gallic Auxillaries to help me subjurgate the Arventii, but I forgot to check the population. It only has 517 citisens so its hardly able to raise a cavalry unit. Its what you get for playing too much ETW and NTW where population doesn't matter.

Annex Region gives a trade bonus, not a tax bonus from what I remember and it's not really that useful imo. Especially when you get further away as the large decrease in public order can be difficult to handle plus the lowered law gives more corruption .

Hmm! thats useful info too. I take it that Client States don't suffer to the same extent for 'distance to capital'.

[DeWitt8]

Hmm! thats useful info too. I take it that Client States don't suffer to the same extent for 'distance to capital'.

They do. They just don't have to make up for the law and happiness penalties, and the corruption coming with the first.

Overall I get the impression you don't read the building descriptions and settlement details really carefully, no offense here, really! But for the most part it's all in there, what you do with it roleplay-wise still depends on your own taste though.

I'm playing Chris' submod at the moment, and made all conquered cities client states before the reforms, after I don't care anymore and go up to citizenship as quick as possible because of happiness and legion recruiting. Of course building barracks after that is not always useful, it really depends on the population as you said rightly!

[Didz]

Overall I get the impression you don't read the building descriptions and settlement details really carefully, no offense here, really! But for the most part it's all in there, what you do with it roleplay-wise still depends on your own taste though.

I do but they don't always help.

Apart from the obvious issue as to how much is 'fluff' and how much is real game mechanic's, some of the information is directly misleading. For example if you read the background on the Roman adminstrative buildings you come away with the idea that all they do is provide a Law bonus and the ability to recruit a few republican units. Its not until you build them and check the overall impact on a client city that you realise that in combination with other buildings in a client state they produce a negative happiness effect that undermines the law bonus, and I've had to go round and demolish most of mine, even those built in accordance with Dani's Guide..

Likewise, it is interesting that some barbarian buildings produce negative results in captured cities whilst others don't. So, there is still an element of learning through experience as to what works and what doesn't in every situation.

Don't client states allow you to actually recruit allied Polybian cohorts while annex regions just provide you with tax benefits?

I don't know. Client States (given enough population) can recruit Allied Cohorts and a selection of local troop types too, but I assumed that annexed regions would eventually let me recruit Republican Legions and and post-reform named legions. Or at least replensh their losses.

[chaplain118]

Don't client states allow you to actually recruit allied Polybian cohorts while annex regions just provide you with tax benefits?

[Legofan4]

You cant recruit either of them until you build the higher levels of the oppidium building tree anyways. The Client state will provide negative if you to high up in the oppidium tree.

[Silius Saurus]

I base my decision upon distance from capital, population and how sexy the troops are that can be recruited pre-reforms. Athens, Massilia and Corinth, for example, provide some pretty steady defensive troops. If the town is small, say less than 2k pop. I will often annex it as it is easy to control with a moderate sized garrison and a decent governor. These usually end up being good solid Roman towns.

Distance from capital will affect corruption which usually siphons away what tax bonuses you can expect from annexation unless you commit to building lots of law-bonus buildings.