What happened to the One Ring?

[Wambat]

This is off topic for FATW, but I just thought of it and it is bugging the hell out of me; I am hoping somebody here will be knowledgeable enough in the lore to answer:

How did Sauron get his One Ring back after the fall of Nurmenor? He certainly would not have been willing parted with it, so it must have been taken with him to Nurmenor. Certainly, if it had been taken away from him whoever did so would undoubtably have kept it for himself, thus still placing the Ring either in Nurmenor, or, worse, Aman. So the Ring would have had to either be at the bottom of the ocean or in the Undying Lands.

To suggest the Sauron simply left it at home is to run against everything else we are meant to believe about the nature of the Ring and its importance to Sauron. It seems a disturbingly weak point in Tolkien's mythology, and I cannot see how I could have missed a discussion of this in his writings/correspondence.

[CountMRVHS]

I can't remember the exact timeline, and am too lazy to look it up , but here are a couple thoughts:

1) when did he make the ring? If he made it after he went to Numenor, then there's your answer.

2) if he made the ring before going to Numenor, I'd think he might have left it behind. He went as a prisoner there, after all, right - after Ar-Pharazon the Golden landed near Umbar with a humongous fleet & army, set up a huge pillar in his honor, and pretty much *ordered* Sauron like the Dog Whisperer guy showing a terrier he's boss. It's unlikely Sauron would have come forth with the ring under those circumstances, knowing he was at best going to be humiliated, at worst captured and the ring itself taken.

3) on the other hand, maybe he brought the ring with him anyway and ... somehow ... kept it secret all that time, until the wrack of Numenor.

[TWWolfe]

Remember, the one ring had a substantial amount of his power in it. Most likely he did leave it behind, just incase things went south in Numemnor(which they did). This way, he would have been able to form his new body, much like he needed the ring to do in Lord of the Rings.

Remember, he had nine utterly loyal servants in the Nazgul, so he wouldn't have been that worried about laeving the ring with them.

[Wambat]

Does anybody know whether or not Sauron would have known ahead of time that the Nurmenian invasion of Aman would result in the sinking of Nurmenor; was this foretold in some prophesy that he was, or might have been privy to? If he could have seen this end, I can, perhaps, see his coming up with a scheme that might convince him to leave The Ring behind. But I am inclined not to believe that Sauron intended to have his form destroyed, considering the inconvenience that imposed upon him thereafter.

[CountMRVHS]

In the Eddic poems and Norse mythology in general, Loki is constantly making trouble with no regard for his own safety; it's like he can't help but be a jerk, no matter how much Thor huffs and puffs, or how much Odin threatens him.

Sauron is no Loki, but it's not inconceivable that some characteristics of the myths might have influenced Tolkien's writing; and the Numenoreans were Sauron's bitterest foes at that time. Even if he knew that the assault on the west would lead to a lot of suffering on his own part, I'm not sure he would have done anything different.

That said, he could have just assumed the Valar would smack down the fleet itself, leaving Sauron to wreak havoc on Numenor.

These are interesting questions!

[Wambat]

That said, he could have just assumed the Valar would smack down the fleet itself, leaving Sauron to wreak havoc on Numenor.

Operating on that assumption would not have been a compelling reason to leave The Ring behind.

[Serech]

I don't recall there ever being much to describe what was going on in Saurons head expect for Gandalfs usually vague declarations.

Certainly not enough to go guessing what he was thinking at the time you're interested in.
I guess I need to go re-read the books soon.

[Aradan]

Sauron took the ring with him to Numenor.

Though [Sauron was] reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of dominating minds now largely depended.

-The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien #211

And, being a Maia, he probably had a good idea of what would happen if Numenoreans tried to assault Aman.

[Revelo]

Sauron took the ring with him to Numenor.

And, being a Maia, he probably had a good idea of what would happen if Numenoreans tried to assault Aman.

I assumed that was partly his intent. Corrupt the Numenoreans, get them to attack Aman so they get utterly destroyed and remove on of his strongest opponents. I know he wasn't too fond of them and probably feared them. He did surrender when the Numenoreans attacked Umbar so he probably was aware they were beginning to doubt if being mortal was a doom rather then a gift.

What he didn't predict I reckon was that after the sinking of the island he was unable to take any form to hide his true nature. So he couldn't infilrate the Elves again afterwards.

[Thangaror]

Sauron did take the Ring to Númenor?! I'm really surprised to hear this. I thought he left it behind in Barad-dûr.

Anyway, I think he was pretty surprised what exactly happened during the Akallabêth. Of course he expected the númenórian fleet and army to be destroyed, but not that the shape of the World became changed and Númenor utterly destroyed. If he had known, he would have left. Being dispossesed of body is not nice, not even for a Maia.

[CountMRVHS]

NOBODY expects the...

...Akallabeth.

[Revelo]

NOBODY expects the...

...Akallabeth.

Pfft, Dwarf Miners would be better.

[Wambat]

Thank you Aradan. This still leaves one to wonder: If Sauron could carry off the ring from the middle of the ocean all the way back to Barad-Dur in spirit form, why the heck wouldn't he do so after Isildur cut off his finger?

And I cannot think it very likely that Sauron, had he predicted the destruction of Nurmenor, would not have used his then considerable influence to commandeer a ship to go back to Middle-Earth. He certainly would have been able to dominate a crew, since he would likely have been able to find a crew who worshiped Morgoth. This had to have been a much better option than having his form destroyed and risking carring off The Ring in non-corporeal form.

Tolkien answered this question, so I guess we have to accept that; yet it seems to me as though this was something he himself did not think of until too late, and the answer he came up with after the fact only tends to raise other unanswerable questions. I think a wiser answer on his part would have been the same answer he gave concerning Tom Bombadil: that Tolkien was not privy to every detail of the mythology, and some things were outside historical record.

[CountMRVHS]

You're probably right, Wambat. Although I still wonder if Sauron really thought he would have lost his bodily form forever, assuming he knew the Downfall was coming (which he probably did).

And Sauron obviously doesn't see everything. The fatal flaw in his plan during the War of the Ring was that he could not conceive of someone trying to destroy the thing; he assumed they would wield it against him, or try to set up their own petty lordship in imitation of his own. (An assumption which was not unreasonable, by the way.) Given that he had the inability to forsee that, we could safely assume he might have predicted he'd get out of Numenor in better shape than he did - or that he made no such prediction at all, and was simply burning to destroy his enemies.

Lastly, and I know this dodges the question, or at least looks at it from a different perspective, it is simply much cooler for the narrative to have Sauron passing over the Sea as a shadowy, disembodied spirit than it is to have him requisition a ship and sail to Middle-earth. Such an event allows us to see how powerful Sauron is in spirit form, but also how limited he has become.

[Dark Lord's Heir]

Wait he took it with him?! How? Did he hide it in his pants when he when went through Numenor's metal detectors?

[Revelo]

Wait he took it with him?! How? Did he hide it in his pants when he when went through Numenor's metal detectors?

Well remember he was a Maia and a very powerful sorcerer. I expect he had a way to hide the ring from view. Also recall he quickly seduced and corrupted the king of Numenor so he wasn't imprisoned for long.

[Wambat]

Well remember he was a Maia and a very powerful sorcerer. I expect he had a way to hide the ring from view. Also recall he quickly seduced and corrupted the king of Numenor so he wasn't imprisoned for long.

The One Ring did not look remarkable.

Sauron submitted himself as a willing captive.

The King of Nurmenor was not on good terms with the Elves, and therefore ma not have known of the significance of The Ring, or, at least, how to identify it.

The King of Nurmenor thought very highly of himself, and his capacity to deflect any harm Sauron might try to inflict upon him.

All these things conspired to make it not very important for Sauron to try to hide The One Ring.