[FAILED] Rebel Jeb (Patron: nicoisbest)

[Fight!]

Patron: nicoisbest

Members of the CdeC,

I come to you today for the application of Rebel Jeb, a member I have known since my birth in TWC. Despite his poor taste in music, Rebel Jeb is an excellent roleplayer, and has contributed to TWC with these roleplays for years. He has hosted numerous roleplaying games, and partaken in many more, many of which in the now defunct Role-Playing Gateway. As a moderately old member of TWC with nearly 12,000 posts, being nearly three, I feel that his citizenship may be slightly overdue. However, I'm sure you'll find that this fruit has ripened well with age.

Applicant: Rebel Jeb

Hello! I come before you today in hopes of achieving something I have wanted for a long time. I feel I have contributed well at times. Mostly more in the present than in the past, shown by my growing maturity.

I started off simply playing in the Alliance Gateway in early 2008. I have remained a loyal player there since then, participating in probably around ten different games, and staying active in all of them. Here the players make a faction and role play as it, as well as fight, trade, etc. A lot of time is placed into these games. An example of some of my work can be seen here
The Sultanate of Harad
The Clans of the Dwarves
The Kingdom of Sylvarant
The Ottoman Empire

An example of roleplay during these games, as well as myself involved, can be seen here
The Strife of Harad
The War of the Necromancer

During a portion of 2009 year I was a local moderator of the RPG Gateway that resided in the Coliseum. Here I ran a roleplaying game called "Star Wars RPG", obviously based on the Star Wars lore and series. I also participated in several other RPGs here, one led by the Armatus called Barbarikon.

Starting in September of 2010 I became a local moderator of the Mafia Subforum, also in the Coliseum. Here I keep the Archives updated and tidy. I also maintain the Mafia Hosting Queue. The queue is quite simple and efficient. To maintain the activity in all games, only a certain amount are allowed to run at a time. Normally this is 2-3 games, one large, and one or two small or mini games. Players get a spot in the queue based on a first-come-first-serve basis.

Also in the Mafia subforum I recently hosted and ran my own game, which concluded recently called Left 4 Dead Mafia.

A little bit about myself and the Mafia subforum can be found...HERE!

I think I have contributed in several other ways as well. For example, here is a review for the multiplayer of the Assassin's Creed Brotherhood game I wrote.

Started in the past few weeks, myself and a few others have been co-hosting a new Lord of the Rings Alliance game. I think this further shows my commitment to the Coliseum, not only as a player, but as a host in several subforums.

I thank you all for the time you put into doing this, and hope you find me worthy.

[Jom]

I'm afraid I don't see roleplaying as much of a contribution at all; you may as well award posting in the Chat Thread as a contribution as that is all that I view it to be: a glorified chat. The opening posts for some of the RPGs do show signs of effort having been made in them but there would have to be a hell of a lot of them in order to make me even begin to consider them. In the same fashion, whilst hosting Mafia games for those involved may be commendable, it's only commendable in a very small way.

The RPGs make for a moderate plus side, but I notice that Jeb completely glosses over his repeated attempts at debate, all of which have met with disastrous results. Simply put, he cannot offer a cogent and logical opinion on an issue, instead giving badly formed replies and reacting with hostility when his views are questioned. As Jeb is selling himself on the strength of his RPGing alone, I find these contributions, if I can truly call them that, to be woefully inadequate for citizenship.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

I'm afraid I don't see roleplaying as much of a contribution at all; you may as well award posting in the Chat Thread as a contribution as that is all that I view it to be: a glorified chat. The opening posts for some of the RPGs do show signs of effort having been made in them but there would have to be a hell of a lot of them in order to make me even begin to consider them. In the same fashion, whilst hosting Mafia games for those involved may be commendable, it's only commendable in a very small way.

The RPGs make for a moderate plus side, but I notice that Jeb completely glosses over his repeated attempts at debate, all of which have met with disastrous results. Simply put, he cannot offer a cogent and logical opinion on an issue, instead giving badly formed replies and reacting with hostility when his views are questioned. As Jeb is selling himself on the strength of his RPGing alone, I find these contributions, if I can truly call them that, to be woefully inadequate for citizenship.

I couldn't have worded it any better.

[Ishan]

Alright i did my homework and i find it pretty much what Jom said earlier:-

I'm afraid I don't see roleplaying as much of a contribution at all; you may as well award posting in the Chat Thread as a contribution as that is all that I view it to be: a glorified chat. The opening posts for some of the RPGs do show signs of effort having been made in them but there would have to be a hell of a lot of them in order to make me even begin to consider them. In the same fashion, whilst hosting Mafia games for those involved may be commendable, it's only commendable in a very small way.

That's what i feel about it.

His majority of the posts are in the RPG forums and there his attitude his alright. D&D well it's not for him my advise avoid that section like i do.
The PM he sent to Jom well i don't appreciate that either he accused him as if he has some grudge against him, trust me bro he doesn't.

Now i asked earlier whether in past solely RPGs were considered as a contribution Mega provided me with 2 links and those guys made it happen not because of that but coz of the contributions in the D&D section.

Honestly the mention of RPG links to me should be more of like a icing on the cake.

Thing i appreciated in Jeb's application was the local moderation he does, those forums are a part of TWC and moderating them, archiving threads and stuff is yet again commendable.

But as a whole it's not complete or worthy enough to gain citizenship yet. Attitude he also needs to work on that.
He should read a few passed citizen applications and see what he missed this time and come next time fully loaded with goodies.

It's a no from me.

[Legio]

I think that Jom is right about the RPGs; his attitude is also severely lacking. Nevertheless I am going to do some digging in the hope that there is something that is missed in the application itself.

[Ishan]

In the past, has this RPG thingy been considered as a contribution in some previous citizen's application?

Although in his application he has mentioned about AC-II's review he wrote and i see it's awesome nice presentation and explanation i would count that as a contribution.

So currently i see one contribution in that list and that is not enough to be citizen worthy imo.

About his attitude how is it? There are some infractions from 2009 for insulting others but it's been a lot of time now has he improved his posting style?

Major you are into these RPG forums how is his behavior overall?

[Belisarius]

Rebel Jeb has no active warnings or any interaction since September.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

As I have never played any of the TWC RPGs, each application I read that cites RPG participation/organization as a contribution causes me to educate myself a bit better in this area of the forums. In reading through Jeb's links and posts, I am seeing more and more how good RPG hosting and participation can be a bona fide contribution to the site. While not my cup of tea, the good RPGs and the good participants really get into this, adding alot of creative writing and even multi-media to help others with the sense of immersion. And I see more people who hang out at TWC mainly because of some of these RPGs: therefore, IMHO, this genre cannot be easily dismissed or heavily downgraded in a citizenship assessment.

In the case of Jeb, he has done some organization of these but nothing that appears epic or groundbreaking. As for contribution, when I look at the quality of his role-play and the value-added for TWC and the other participants, it is a little hit and miss. There were many others who I found were going to great lengths in their participation (staying in 'character', not too many OOCs, pics, music, vids, little touches like font changes and colours to help with immersion, depth of writing etc etc). From the outside looking in, I would not characterize Jeb's contributions to be in the top classes of this genre: ie not bad, but not memorable. Though keeping an open mind about this, I was looking for participation and a quality of organization that would wow me a bit more, since the bulk of the citizenship application rests on this.

On the side issues, his posting style isn't my cup of tea either, but I didn't find anything to suggest that he is rude or a bad apple, so maybe Jom and Legio are privy to something I'm not. So not a negative on my part for this, but not positive either.

If he didn't include debate contributions to his application, than I would never fault him if this isn't his strong suit - my own DD or VV forays would be laughed out of the joint

So, I am open-minded to good RPG organization and participation being recognized as contributions, but I didn't find his contributions to be dynamic or thorough enough to carry the application on their own.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Abstain.

[Jom]

If he didn't include debate contributions to his application, than I would never fault him if this isn't his strong suit - my own DD or VV forays would be laughed out of the joint.

He didn't include them because they are embarrassing. I don't believe in judging someone simply on the parameters that they've presented in the application; Jeb has tried to post extensively in the D&D section at times, and at each attempt he has been laughed out of the forum.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

The 1st role play applicant endorsed for citizenship was ...

[Citizen]askthepizzaguy (patron: Last Roman)INVALID *

PASSED[Citizen]askthepizzaguy (patron: Last Roman)RE-VOTE *

* askthepizzaguy's reviews are locked in the fault. In as much as he choose to seal them they are not publically viewable.


The 2nd role play success story was ...

PASSED[Citizen]nicoisbest (patron: Saint Nicholas)

Now if I recall correctly..., during nicoisbest's review I was drowning/up to my hip waders in spam and wondering "if" I should go on. I looked at the vote poll and buy jimmeny so many others had invested a yes that that gave me the incentive to keep digging til I found something tangible either way. It paid off, cuz ad mist the spam was a vein of gold that sealed the deal for me.

I guess my point is that with role play stuff, you need to dive in til you hit bottom. I won't be around for the vote but I'll try and see if I can present an assessment before VP{Viking Prince} comes in and snakes my seat...

[Jom]

The 1st role play applicant endorsed for citizenship was ...

[Citizen]askthepizzaguy (patron: Last Roman)INVALID *

PASSED[Citizen]askthepizzaguy (patron: Last Roman)RE-VOTE *

* askthepizzaguy's reviews are locked in the fault. In as much as he choose to seal them they are not publically viewable.


The 2nd role play success story was ...

PASSED[Citizen]nicoisbest (patron: Saint Nicholas)

Now if I recall correctly..., during nicoisbest's review I was drowning/up to my hip waders in spam and wondering "if" I should go on. I looked at the vote poll and buy jimmeny so many others had invested a yes that that gave me the incentive to keep digging til I found something tangible either way. It paid off, cuz ad mist the spam was a vein of gold that sealed the deal for me.

I guess my point is that with role play stuff, you need to dive in til you hit bottom. I won't be around for the vote but I'll try and see if I can present an assessment before VP{Viking Prince} comes in and snakes my seat...

Neither of those two applicants sold themselves exclusively on their roleplaying, which is what Jeb is doing here. Nicoisbest and Askthepizzaguy had some excellent contributions to the D&D under their belt, particularly Askthepizzaguy for whom I have a lot of respect as a debater. That just isn't there for Jeb.

[Legio]

Jom's said it all, really.

[Jom]

Now I've been unfair on Jeb and slandering him mercilessly. Hopefully everyone else who has agreed with my point of view has also received the following PM:

The RPGs make for a moderate plus side, but I notice that Jeb completely glosses over his repeated attempts at debate, all of which have met with disastrous results.

He didn't include them because they are embarrassing.

I must say that I don't like this slandering involved. You are putting words into my mouth that I didn't say or think. I did not include them because there aren't many. I probably don't even have 100 posts in the D&D. I don't visit it very often. I found my major contributions as the Coliseum. I did not include every small detail like my researching or art work. I understand you don't like me, my feeling is mutual, but to blatantly lie about me is extremely low, and I would expect much more from you.

Jeb has tried to post extensively in the D&D section at times, and at each attempt he has been laughed out of the forum.

So please, show each of my D&D posts. And after each one show the people laughing at my embarrassment. You make the claim, you back it up. And remember you said at each attempt, that means every time. I just want it to be fair, if you will. I figured I would get a lot of heat for trying since I knew in advance that some people don't like my views, but lying about evidence is something else.

So I thought I would do a little digging, as behoves a CdeC member, of course, as we are noted for our rigour in researching candidates. God forbid that the CdeC ever just become a rubber stamp with one person orchestrating proceedings deciding whether someone becomes a citizen or is rejected purely on the basis of personal feeling in the matter.

I've also noted a bit of antipathy towards my points raised in this thread, and not least from the PM I received from the applicant. Whether this PM is appropriate or not is a matter for another thread, although for me personally it is another nail in the coffin of transparency as this is the second time in as many weeks that I have had an applicant personally take me up on things that I have said in this forum. To others who may doubt the points I have raised above, I have made it abundantly clear that I don't consider Jeb's contributions on the RPG side of things to be sufficient to make him into a citizen. That said, I decided on my own initiative to try and find some pluses to add to my appraisal of Jeb, to edge him closer to the mark as it were. This is not uncommon practice; many times you will see councillors commenting upon how pleasant the member is when they post, or how they deliberately go above and beyond the call to answer a question, even if this is not a quality recognised by the member themselves out of feelings of modesty. This was the case with Jeb.

"Why!" I thought, "Here is young Jeb applying to the CdeC, but unfortunately his RPG contributions don't quite make it for me! Let's see what else this young lad has been getting up to!" So, like I said before, I dug, and found the following:

well it is a little complicated, most students dont care about math or science either but it is still definately true....

There is a big difference between not believing and not caring.

Yes, and we all know you're just a fountain of knowledge on climatology...

My dad is a Doctor of Science. So pretty much, yep.

What are you talking about? He wants to form closer ties between the faith of Islam and the American general public to put their fears about Islam to rest. You don't seem to understand what he said. He believes that Sharia law can exist in harmony with the US legal system. I.e. any Muslim following US law would not be doing anything illegal under Sharia. This is what makes him moderate, amongst other things.

He called the US an accessory to 9/11. I guess if that's how he meant it, it's fine. I don't understand muslim jibberjabber. Did he mean something good by saying that the US was accessory to 9/11 also?

And how is doing something that 70% of the US DOESN'T WANT forming better ties? HOW?

And seriously, people have fears of them because, y'know, we're at war with groups of them? It's justified fear.

And how is this guy going to get Americans to like muslims when he says stuff like this?

"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than Al Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims."

"You remember that the U.S. led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations."

He doesn't sound like a very American-loving person to me. Moderate for islam? Yes. Moderate for everything else? No.

Muslim jibberjabber.

Divine rights? What divine right? Please prove the existence of divine rights.

Oh, I'm sorry. We're all just evolved dirt savages. My bad.

This is a simplistic, psuedo-absolute, narrow and psuedo-intellectual view on morality.

How so? Because I don't like murders and rapists in society?

That doesn't indicate anything. This is merely anecdotal.

Sorry, I guess they're just ninja hobos. Nowhere to be seen.

It's possible. Before you go about trashing the guy for making a statistical observation, why don't you, I don't know, assess validity?

Are you kidding? Look at how many muslims terrorist groups kill everyday, it's terrible.

Nope. What he said was that US foreign policy contributed to our being attacked on 9/11, and that is 100% true

Not nope. That's what he said. Quoting directly from him. Don't try to lie.

"an accessory to the crime"

Is exactly what he said.

Nope, he sure didn't. What he said was that he thought the principles of American democracy and the constitution were wholly compatible with Shari'a. But wait, that can't be, because Shari'a "destroys women's rights" when the US constitution and law doesn't??? OMG I'm so confused!

Yes, he did. He said that America is Sharia Compliant. Obviously he wants it involved. Look at how Sharia works in other countries in the middle-east, it's not a good thing.

It's okay to be confused. Politics can be confusing sometimes. Don't worry about it, you'll learn eventually.

I'm not the one with this problem, chief.

Obviously you are.

Politics can be confusing sometimes. Don't worry about it, you'll learn eventually.

[Jom]

Due to ongoing harassment on the part of the client, I don't think I can form an objective opinion any more and will have to abstain on this case.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Going to vote no based on recent events. The maturity isn't there.

[Justinian]

I definitely don't see the contribution or the attitude. Call me old fashioned but I think the ability to string together rational sentences in a debate and actually contribute when entering a debate are still integral to being a Citizen. I have never seen a post by him that has made me think, wow, he should be a Citizen. Maybe with a lot of growth and maturity he might some day deserve it, but that exchange with Jom certainly shows his maturity level and that's not the kind of attitude we need in the Curia.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

And that's why all of this should have stayed behind closed doors.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

And that's why all of this should have stayed behind closed doors.

The reasoning behind this statement escapes me.

[Pontifex Maximus]

The reasoning behind this statement escapes me.

Transparency once again damns an application. I think this makes three in total.