Economy

[Point Blank]

How are people finding the new 6.4 economy? I am tempted to use a similar system to last RR/RC where AI settlements get a bonus, plus reduced building costs like the Carl script and maybe some freezing of recruitment. Or should I stay with 6.4 version or just use Carl?

[Point Blank]

I should state that my goal is to preserve as much commonality with 6.4 as possible, so if 6.4 economy is ok, I'd prefer to use it.

[Gorrrrrn]

From the limited amount of gameplay I managed, I'd say the AI gets far too much money far too quickly, we need to phase in economic bonuses slowly
rather than have them all up front.

On the other hand I found a couple of factions still managed to flat-line before T100 - possibly because the AI factions can recruit too many units too quickly.

[smitty]

How are people finding the new 6.4 economy?

Ha ha I wish I could offer an answer but I'm such a die hard fan of your work I haven't even bothered with 6.4... Still playing your latest RR/RC version. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.

[k/t]

Me too, and I'm not interested in 6.4 (and I wasn't interested in 6.3 either), although the map there is better for moving agents around and the resources have been moved away from the roads so the merchants don't constantly get knocked off them by marching armies. You should ask this in the SS forum. I'm using Carl now and it seems good. The AI is actually upgrading its settlements, and for some reason they're getting castles and fortresses before me. Does Carl actually reset the treasury to 50 if it drops below 0? I remember Fred Putz saying that, but I don't know if that made it into the final version. I don't want the AI getting a money bonus in addition to 1 dollar buildings because that will result in endless spamming of units. 1 dollar buildings is enough.

[Fred Putz]

Wow - thank You all for supporting Carl. Perhaps there are more opinions needed from players which played with 6.4 a bit more. I can´t say anything about that.

Does Carl actually reset the treasury to 50 if it drops below 0? I remember Fred Putz saying that, but I don't know if that made it into the final version.

Yes somewhere between 10 and 50. The treasury will be frozen - that´s actually the main task of Carl.

[Point Blank]

I wont be using 6.4 growth rates. Agree that Denmark is OP and that HRE needs some help. I'll be taking a look at some of the global economy modifiers to perhaps reduce income a bit, plus reducing some building-based bonuses. Carl looks good cheers Fred.

[merocaine]

maybe you can remove HRE as a crusade target?

[AClockworkOrange]

How are people finding the new 6.4 economy?

I don't know...I haven't been able to complete a @#$ campaign because of crashes...have to stay away from submods I guess. I do like the new map, though.

I still play RR/RC, and prefer this one over 6.4. I really like Carl; my enemies are usually really well-equipped and higher-end units.

EDIT: Alright...now that I think about it...I did get pretty far in a campaign once in 6.4...made 150 turns in a late campaign as Poland. I'm convinced that Carl for RR/RC is better.

[Point Blank]

Great thanks for the info everyone, much appreciated, looks like Carl might be the way to go

[hippacrocafish]

I think it's way too easy. :/

I was spending and in a war with Norway as Denmark and I had 25,000+ gold in my treasury.

[smitty]

I'll second the vote for Carl, it's what I've been using the past 5+ campaigns. It's the most balanced out of anything I've seen yet and fantastic to see enemy fortresses/citadels. I would like to note however that 6.4 nukes the castle/city growth rate, which would seriously negate the advantage of the Carl script. If all I can ever build (and the AI too...) are castles/large cities I'll never see new rosters and find myself fighting the same battles over and over with a small roster change every 70 years...

With that said, I'd still like to note that Denmark is still way too powerful. Their Baltic trade seems more profitable than some Italian merchant cities. They run around rampantly instilling fear in the fashion that HRE ought to, except the HRE continues to get crusaded upon while the Danes take over all of Norway/Germany every game.

So, I'd suggest Carl with a minor reduction in Danish trade and a HUGE overhaul of HRE getting raped all game every game.

[k/t]

Remove Toulouse, Frankfurt and Vienna from the crusade target list and add Damietta, Cordoba and Edessa. Vienna should be removed from the jihad list too.

Ichon had a lot of good suggestions about weakening Denmark and boosting the HRE, as well as weakening England and Scotland to reflect their population at the time (England = 1/2 France).

"Ichon said in the Byzantium thread how he addressed the problem: increased population for the HRE, two settlements get higher walls, Scandinavia's population reduced, relations improved. I also suggest the removal of Toulouse and Frankfurt and all the other Catholic settlements from the crusade list. And Palermo shouldn't be jihaded because sometimes the Muslims all gather near Tunis and then stare stupidly across the ocean until the generals die of old age. "

This is what I had in another post, but now I have to find Ichon's original material.

Argh, I can't find it. Maybe he'll drop by and tell us again the details.

[Point Blank]

Sounds good.

[Point Blank]

Carl economy implemented, thanks Fred
EDB significantly modified to balance 6.4 building economy bonuses with Carl.
Overall economy updated to lower incoming funds.

[merocaine]

weakening England and Scotland to reflect their population at the time (England = 1/2 France).

hmm, England was the richest and best administered Christian state in western Europe at the time, the Capetian Monarchy's writ barely ran between Paris and Orleans. England shouldn't be nerfed.
If anything France should be reduced to the Ille de France, and surrounded by exceptionally powerful rebels,
Or at least start with lots of Generals with zero loyalty!

Carl economy implemented, thanks Fred
EDB significantly modified to balance 6.4 building economy bonuses with Carl.
Overall economy updated to lower incoming funds.

Awesome, as far as I can tell from my reading, it was exceptionally hard to raise money in the medieval era, full stack battles should be a rare event.

Fred's ROM mod for 6.4 is interesting in this regard, I find my self fighting a lot of little skirmishes, rather than massive battles, I've actually had to retreat from the Hungarians for a couple of turn when they turned up with nearly full stack

[Fred Putz]

Carl economy implemented, thanks Fred
EDB significantly modified to balance 6.4 building economy bonuses with Carl.
Overall economy updated to lower incoming funds.

I thank You Point Blank.

Fred's ROM mod for 6.4 is interesting in this regard, I find my self fighting a lot of little skirmishes, rather than massive battles, I've actually had to retreat from the Hungarians for a couple of turn when they turned up with nearly full stack

It´s different if You´re using different AI´s. With lusted AI i saw many few unit "stacks" and few fullstacks. With savage AI i saw more fullstacks. Just saw it that way - no clou why it is so.

[k/t]

It doesn't matter how well-run it was if it had fewer people. Give it some extra Town Halls or something to represent that.

How much will the economy be reduced?

I sent Ichon a message and he said he'll try to remember to come by and share his ideas. He said he had made quite a lot of changes and needed to have a look to see what exactly they had been.

[Point Blank]

These seem good values and are in line with the changes I pictured:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...01#post8995901

Credit to Kolaris8472

[k/t]

What are you planning to do? Lower the growth rate?