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[irishron]

I have Spurius' BigMap, 510 x 365 or so. After Bowden redid my mod's travel in descr_ character.txt, I have coquered the full coastline Novgorod/Turku through lubrck, Calais, Bordeaux, Oviedo, Fara, back up the Mediterranian coast through Marseille, Genoa, Rome, Naples, Brindisi, Bologna, with vienna in sight and it's only year 1110 = 120 turns@4tpy = only 30 years. At this rate I can conquer all 190 regions before the Mongols show up.

This is one for gameplay, not for historical accuracy.

[irishron]

This has been an issue since Medieval One for me. Nothing new.

Yeah, I can hold them the same way the conquerors used to do it, execute all prisoners, exterminate the population, burn the place down, and rebuild it my way.

For historical accuracy, you're correct. For gameplay purposes, personally, you and I are going to agree to disagree.

[Gorrrrrn]

I'd reckon speed of army is inversely proportional to its size - bigger it is, the slower it moves.

But all sorts of other factors need to be considered, not least availability of uncontested and usable roads, adequate supplies, quality of organisation of army, terrain, weather, etc etc.

Viking speed was as much due to choosing correct time to cross seas and the fact their armies were unencombered with a supply train camp followers etc.
(Been reading Robin Lane Fox's "Travelling heroes" about ancient Greeks and other sea-farers in the med (and much else besides) - shows that prevailing wind directions changed with seasons,
and sailing at the wrong time of year would add weeks to a journey.)

from my booklist here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...07#post7356907

I'd recommend:
Hewitt, H.J. “The Organisation of War under Edward III” Manchester 1966 (rep Leo Cooper 2005)
Mortimer, Ian "1415. Henry V's Year of Glory" (Bodley Head, 2009)

as they are very good on the logistics of warfare. makes you realise the planning that went into medieval wafare before a single soldier was mustered let alone set off on campaign.

[Gorrrrrn]

RD - interesting maths but you're not factoring in the preparation time.
For example it would take a day for the English to cross the English Channel to attack France.
But it took them 6 months to assemble the necessary stores, equipment, arms, arrows, etc etc and wait for the right wind to do that crossing in one day.
Equally properly organised crusading armies would take a long time to assemble, find money to pay the soldiers, etc etc.

However, in terms of game play that sort of movement rate for a 2TPY would result in armies effectively teleporting from one side of the map to the other.
Which would tend to make the game unplayable.

One way round that is have 6 turns per year, which would return to about 85 MP per turn.

[Gorrrrrn]

I was recently playing with a homebrew 6TPY campaign (using the 6 TPY script with minor modifications) with SS6.4 just to test if i could freeze recruitment over the winter months.

so 6 TPY is do-able, but you'll need to make drastic adjustments elsewhere to build times; campaign script and other files that use turn numbers to fire events etc.
probably adjust settlement_mechanics etc.

could make for an interesting campaign.

[Ichon]

This is interesting discussion... I do think the movements are a snails pace and while Roz has a good point about the preparation to move an army across the channel in a single day for example most of that sort of thing is already abstracted. 2 tpy we assume in the months leading up to the movement that that sort of preparations are taken care of. Movement without supply considerations is the most unrealistic as often the speed of the supply chain was the biggest impact on how fast the army moved. In rough territory far from rivers or sea resupply movement was either very fast(steppes) so not to exhaust the fodder in one area or very slow (agrarian areas) to strip the land bare and get supplies.

Of course most campaigns were conducted either by slow expansion capturing border forts with small armies and launch occasional large scale invasions or move down coasts with supply by fleet.

The one thing I am not sure of is how AI will handle larger movement distances. Is there a simple way to increase the movement just to test it?

[Gorrrrrn]

One further consideration.
The AI, when it goes on crusade or jihad (and when it actually moves towards the target), will often set off with just a general and maybe a couple of units.
It then picks up the army as it proceeds from mercenaries that are available (either crusade/jihad ones or regular mercs.)
From what I have observed, the AI only recruits when it is stationary and doesn't stop in every region along the way just to see if it can recruit (the way humans do - well i do )

So if you allow for longer distances to be moved in one turn, the AI will arrive more quickly at the target, and MAY, because of reduced recruitment opportunities, have fewer troops
than if it had been forced to stop more times (and thereby have the ability to recruit more units.)

(that's the theory anyway - be interesting to see if it shown to be true/false when tested - i do it myself but already over-committed time-wise.)

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[Gorrrrrn]

RD - no probs I forget what i post and where.

I've seen AI crusade / jihad armies arrive at target with 1 or 2 units.
AI can and does use crusade/jihad armies as normal armies and sends them off to attack other targets.
--

Nobles had all manner of people who could run their lands in their absence, being away for a couple of years was no problem.
Many had wives who could hold the fort as well.

Nicholaa de la Haye (between 1150 and 1156 to 1230) was the eldest daughter and co-heiress of Richard de la Haye (d. 1169), a Lincolnshire lord, and a descendant of the pre-Conquest Lord Colswain of Lincolnshire. Nicholaa's first husband was William fitz Erneis (d. 1178). Before 1185 she married Gerard de Camville, son and heir of Richard de Camville, a royal official and admiral of the fleet of King Richard I when he sailed to the Holy Land on the Third Crusade. She inherited the office of castellan of Lincoln castle and her husbands generally carried out the duties of that office by her right. At times, however, she was directly in charge of the castle, most notably in 1191, when Gerard was with Prince John at Nottingham and Nicholaa held out against a month-long siege, and in 1215–17, when she directed the defense of Lincoln against the rebel barons in 1217. She was aided by William Marshal in the latter endeavor. She also served as sheriff of Lincolnshire for five months in 1216 on the appointment of King John of England.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_de_la_Haye

Much of the agricultural work was done by serfs, etc, who being unfree people of no property and little income weren't generally liable for recruitment into armies.
they were liable for labour services rather than military service. (note this may not the case everywhere at all times, it's mainly based on english evidence.)

Freemen were liable for military service (40 days in some cases), but the large scale recruitment of even them caused logistical and command and control issues.
Sensible commanders only gathered enough men into their armies to do the job required, more than that were a waste of money and time.

the numbers involved in crusades were negligible compared to total population.
demographics of medieval period is difficult due to lack of reliable source material, but population growth was sometimes offset by poor harvests, climate change, and plagues etc.
Losses involved in crusades did not amount ot that much.

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[Gorrrrrn]

Doubt we can stop the AI recruiting a crusading army and then letting the GB move off on his own, or just setting off without the regulation 6 units.

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