Perversion and Prostitution of a Culture.

[Thanatos]

I've been to several countries now, and what makes me incensed more than anything else while I'm traveling is the fact that so many places whore out their culture and their livelihood. Allow me to furnish you with an example.

My last trip was about a month in length, and I spent that month living in both Peru and Argentina. Argentina was the case where people were showing off their tango dancing skills, that was one thing.

But in Peru, there were large colorful placards printed out and put on the main streets and roads, marketing these tour groups that would travel to certain places such as Pisac or Sacsayhuamán to go and witness the various rituals and traditions the indigenous people there performed. Even worse, they called these activities "mystical."

I witnessed the same thing when I was in China some years ago, except instead of people performing Incan traditions, it was Chinese people playing up various rituals. Being half-Chinese and being really in touch with that side along with actual Chinese culture, this also bothered me greatly.

Barring the fact that they're not in cages, these people might as well be in a human zoo. Ultimately, what the advertising boils down to is "COME SEE THE BROWN/YELLOW/BLACK PEOPLE DO SOMETHING SILLY, IT'S OH SO DEEP AND MYSTICAL BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ING WHITE ."

I understand that for some people, this is all they have to go on living, and it is their choice to choose this as their job, but it doesn't make me any less sick.

Am I the only one who finds this to be just.... wrong?

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/we...home/tags/peru

and http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/e...ND-WEALTH.html

From the second link:

...the bulk of Peru's population (54 percent) lives in poverty, according to the CIA World Factbook.Of the poor, the UNDP estimates that 19 percent live in "absolute poverty," meaning they survive on less than US$1 a day.

I think that what we call "whoring out our culture" is probably "trying anything to put food on the table" for many of these people, particularly the rural Peruvians. If my family was on the brink of starvation, I'd tell people I have a statue of the Virgin Mary that cries Jelly-beans in my backyard if I could get them to fork out a buck to see it. And if they aren't exploiting it themselves, whenever you have abject poverty like that, you can bet there is another line-up of people ready to exploit them.

Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me. And for every seller, there must be a buyer, willing to fork out pennies for the "mystical" experience and some cool pics for their Facebook page.

[Thanatos]

Like I said in the near ending of my original statement, I understand that for a lot of people they do whatever they can to put food in their bellies, as well as in the mouths of their family. I would know, I walked around quite a lot in Peru. I specifically made it a point to spend a few days walking in the places tourists didn't want to go, in Lima, Pisac, Cusco, and Ollantaytambo.

And then I walked around the main touristy areas.

I've seen first hand the destitution and the poverty. I have forever recorded in my memory the sight of seeing 70-80 year old women who have nobody to spend time with them out on the streets when it was around 35 Fahrenheit with hardly any clothing on them, begging for money. At 1:37 in the morning. I've seen a woman I slipped money into her cup quietly retrieve and kiss the coins I gave her and cross herself.

I don't know. I'm just... bothered nevertheless.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

I don't know. I'm just... bothered nevertheless.

Oh I don't blame you mate, and I'm sure you saw some depressing sights. The selling out of culture in many areas is bothersome, I agree with you there. Its just that whenever I've run into this in my travels, when I think about that problem I start to see that the root causes of this exist on a global plane, not usually a local one. It is sad that some of the most wonderful cultures are currently being safeguarded by some of the poorest nations. At some point, something's gotta give, and someone will slap a Coca Cola sign on their Cristo Redentor to make ends meet.

[Voodo chile]

Yes i also have thought something was fishy with the tourism industry. The tourism industry tbh is the 'cheapskate' out of all of them. It just exploits peoples ways of life and actually makes money from people watching it. I dont think you can define every single aspect of it though. It takes many sinister forms...

I think that it is important that countries keep their identity and they keep doing what they do. And i'm glad there are still 'backwards' communities in this world. Take the nomadic peoples in eastern europe/Asia. I dont see anything really wrong with it but my problems are that it is basically a big hoax. While it is great to see New Zealand Maoris doing hakas with the tiaha and skirts i sometimes think, they dont exactly walk the talk. After the haka they put on their normal clothes and live just like everyone else. And sometimes their job is to just do hakas and cultural dances. But at least theyre showing the Maori culture.

They may actually hold a mystical value or that may have just been the way they described it. But i dont really know much about cultural tourism. My city is basically an english colonial city. No strong maori traditions. Relys on river gondolas similar to venice, An anglican cathedral, old school trams and that sort of stuff. Basically its a city tourism sort of place. City culture is very important. Nothing too controversial unless you consider high prices to be a problem.

My main concern with tourism 'packages' is that they are expensive and they are not very adventurous. I prefere to see how the other half lives instead of seeing them do a dance. Tourism packages rely on efficiency. Instead of travelling hundreds of km to see a few natives to a dance they hire native looking people do a dance in a building down the road. Not always authentic and people buy it because they want to see something 'different' but not necessarily authentic. Everyone likes to see africans sitting down playing drums in a park but no one likes to travel days to get to the wilder lands to see people hunt and shoot stuff with bows.

I dont think you can say the tourism industry is prostitution though. I think the term 'capitalism' fits that expression more. Just about everything is about exploiting something. Logging industry, chopping down trees- Exploiting forests. Agriculture, farm animals.Everything. Germany whores out their zeinheiser earbuds. new zealand i think whores out all its best food and dairy products.
Anyway thats what i have to say. i may have contradicted myself or left loose ends but oh well

[Viking Prince]

We all promote the local color for the tourists. It is unfair to focus solely on the

"COME SEE THE BROWN/YELLOW/BLACK PEOPLE DO SOMETHING SILLY, IT'S OH SO DEEP AND MYSTICAL BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ING WHITE ."

Colorado just finished up with their annual cattle and ranch industrial show (The National Western Stock Show) that included rodeos and competitions for various animals. A huge economic impact on the region just shy of $100 million and about 644,000 attend the event.

And the tourism of Mesa Verde, Mount Rushmore, Deadwood, various steam railroads, etc. is all a part of the 'local' color.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

We all promote the local color for the tourists. It is unfair to focus solely on the
Colorado just finished up with their annual cattle and ranch industrial show (The National Western Stock Show) that included rodeos and competitions for various animals. A huge economic impact on the region just shy of $100 million and about 644,000 attend the event.

And the tourism of Mesa Verde, Mount Rushmore, Deadwood, various steam railroads, etc. is all a part of the 'local' color.

Yeah near here there's a big annual horse fair where you can buy horses and other stuff, but that's not marketed as some crazy "magical ritual".

There's also a few old country manor houses from when we were part of the UK, and even older forts and castles stretching back to the middle ages and prehistory. None of those are magical rituals, they're just tourism.

[Old_Scratch]

Lol, if anyone is being exploited here it's the tourists. Tourists are a major source of income and they will give you money for doing or making something they think is local flavor. Why do you think tourist destinations compete to get more visitors or make their cities more tourist friendly? If the locals didn't want them there, then they wouldn't be there. It's pretty easy to make a place unappealing to visitors.

[Thanatos]

Yes, but they don't market these events as being mystical or sacred now, do they?

[Phier]

Yes, but they don't market these events as being mystical or sacred now, do they?

People go to see the Vatican all the time, even non-Catholics, or Christians.

The problem is people want to experience something new and different when they travel. As the economy globalizes it becomes harder and harder. You see the same stuff from LA to Istanbul.

What do these places have to offer to interest others? Only whats unique about their culture.

Its cool when some art student goes and sees these unique culture things backpacking but its 'prostituting' when its a tour bus.

You are blaming the tourist, but the changes are in the culture itself, if they wanted to keep it private and sacred they are free to do so.

Personally one day I need to see one of these festivals....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can be modern and keep your culture too, even if you are not white.

[Thanatos]

People go to see the Vatican all the time, even non-Catholics, or Christians.

True, but it's not marketed in the same way, at least not to the same extent.

Its cool when some art student goes and sees these unique culture things backpacking but its 'prostituting' when its a tour bus.

You are blaming the tourist, but the changes are in the culture itself, if they wanted to keep it private and sacred they are free to do so.

Yes and no. There is a difference, I think. When I was traveling abroad, I had the option to go to a cultural and religious event, but I was expressly invited by people who knew me, as opposed to me going to a place that just puts on a spectacle for rich non-native people all day every day, 365 days a year.

The first kind is sincere, and has meaning. The second, not nearly so much.

[Volcanic]

As in physics - also in the real life the observer influences the observed. If ("money-loaded") tourists are expected by a local population then that will make them (some!; not all) act differently. "Even" Scots and Germans pervert their culure for tourists to make some money.

The only alternative is to not appear as an observer (tourists). The second best would be not to behave as a tourist. But that doesn't really help, as many locals will nevertheless treat you as one.

[iudas]

People around the world starve, Thanatos. Culture is unimportant when you have nothing to feed your children.

[Himster]

I think buying sub-way sandwiches is a lot like soliciting prostitution: you're paying someone else to do your wife's job.

[Denny Crane!]

So the complaint is that they call it mystical?

I've no problem with this, selling out this kind of stuff provides money and to a certain extent selling out some kind of fake mysticism and false representation of local culture goes some ways to allowing the genuine cultural to flourish.

[Thanatos]

So the complaint is that they call it mystical?

It's not the word itself so much, it's just that as I stated before, the connotation is equivalent to that of going to a zoo or an amusement park. I cannot replicate the messages I saw in other countries off the top of my head, but the language in the advertisements were unbelievably patronizing.

I've no problem with this, selling out this kind of stuff provides money and to a certain extent selling out some kind of fake mysticism and false representation of local culture goes some ways to allowing the genuine cultural to flourish.

How so? I think I can see where you are getting at, but could you explain further?

[Denny Crane!]

It's not the word itself so much, it's just that as I stated before, the connotation is equivalent to that of going to a zoo or an amusement park. I cannot replicate the messages I saw in other countries off the top of my head, but the language in the advertisements were unbelievably patronizing.



How so? I think I can see where you are getting at, but could you explain further?

I'm not sure that I can, it isn't something I've particularly thought about. Globalisation brings harmonisation of culture and values (obviously some of this is positive) but in as much it is our differences that make things more interesting to a limited extent is our various nuances and habits that we call traditions. The promotion of a gaudier form of these for whatever purpose helps keep the traditions alive and more sincere adherents will continue to exist in the background.

[The Dude]

Is this really anything new, though? Isn't your average chinese restaurant with red/green interior and dragon-shaped furniture with pictures of the chinese wall all over the shop the same except in your own country? This is what happens. As a Dutch person I realise that the first things that people think of when they think of my country are drugs, hookers, clogs and cheese. Fine, so I play along. No worries.

There's a certain added bonus to experiencing your own culture as foreigners do. It allows you to put things into perspective and, as Denny said, enrich it through better understanding in the process.

[Brain_in_a_vat]

I'm guessing these spectacles weren't witnessed by you in wealthy middle-class neighbourhoods. My sister told me a trip she made backpacking across Southeast Asia, where she experienced severe culture-shock because of the swathes of Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian poor who'd constantly, persistently try to sell her trinkets and garbage, almost amorally steal, kidnap tourists and travellers so they could sell them larger, less mobile products, haggling for ridiculous prices, ya know.

I know it's not an identical situation you faced, but these sort of people usually don't have any kind of education and there's not much labour to be peformed in their areas, so they resort to stealing and selling products (in this case their traditions). It's called the Third World, or Second World in China's case.

[Odovacar]

If there is a demand, then there is an offer.

And Thanatos the world is a dark place with poverty everywhere except some chosen western, North-American country, and with some rather modest countries elsewhere.
You have to do everything to feed yourself and your children. In traditional societies the give birth to many children despite poverty, in westernised societies they rather remain childless and sometimes unmarried forever. Still spiritual and material poverty multiplies itself.