How Islamic Socialism will save the Middle East and free it from the West

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Simple fact is, with these new revolutions that are abounding in many dictatorships backed by the West and Israel many will fall and hopefully we can get some good ole Islamic Socialism to work in these countries. I think the time is ripe for it.

For one thing, many of these countries have poor who are trounced upon by those who take the West's orders ala the Shah of Iran. What we need is a real grassroots campaign to help them. Islamic socialism is the best type of help they can get. Since one of Islam's value is to take care of the community's at risk, children and women, a socialist government can to this. By establishing a mandatory Zakaat donation, which is 2.5% of a persons wealth, these funds can be transfered over to the government who redistributes it to the poor. To stop any sort of dishonest service, a parallel body will be set up to monitor the donations and make sure they are used properly. Most of the Zakaat will go to free housing, free healthcare and free education. Thats right, I think free education till University should be established all backed by the Zakaat and any profit that result when taking over of natural and national resources.

The Quran states [paraphrasing] that the world is not ours but is given to us as a loan and that all the resources should belong to the community. As such, Oil, Gas and others will be taken away from the International and often Western backed companies and put under state control. This way they have a secure source of income and an industry that is for the people. Corporations will run on a very tight and strict controlled environment and making sure that they do not exploit the environment. Small businesses will be encouraged. Since private property can lead to exploitation, there isn't any private property but business can pay a low cost rent rate for using the land. Funds from these commodities shall be used to help those who are poor, pay for free education, the armed forces and to help develop alternative energy sources so we have something to fall back on.

Discrimination shall be stopped thanks to Islamic Socialism. All those who live in the country are its citizens. However, since the majority of them are usually Muslim, non-Muslims will be able to apply for all positions in the government with the exception of important posts. Each people of the book will be given a seat whether they are a Jew or Christian based on their community level. At least one seat is always guaranteed. They are able to get all help they can through the governmental programs but will have to pay a tax for their omission from the armed forces. These taxes will be omitted for the poor, the middle class and the rich will have to pay. These could go to funding the armed forces as well.

The main idea is this, help for the poor, job growth through free education/conscription and jobs both inside and outside of the government, encouragement of self-sufficiency through locally owned community businesses and a rejection of both capitalism and corporatism will do this part of the world good. Giving them all the ability they can will make for a happy and joyful country and region. The people will be given any opportunity they wish and hopefully we can get to a more peaceful Islamic government.

[hellheaven1987]

Lol, that is ridiculous, why non-Muslims (and what the heck does Islam has to do with politic??) have to pay an extra tax for same benefit as a Muslim? Are you making non-Muslims as some second-class citizens?

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Lol, that is ridiculous, why non-Muslims (and what the heck does Islam has to do with politic??) have to pay an extra tax for same benefit as a Muslim? Are you making non-Muslims as some second-class citizens?

Muslims go to the army, the non-muslims don't. Its called conscription and hence why this tax is paid. Its to ensure that they remain safe. They are not treated as second-class citizens. And Islam has to do with politics. Thats why this thread is Islamic Socialism.

[hellheaven1987]

Muslims go to the army, the non-muslims don't. Its called conscription and hence why this tax is paid. Its to ensure that they remain safe. They are not treated as second-class citizens. And Islam has to do with politics. Thats why this thread is Islamic Socialism.

And why non-Muslims cannot go to army? All citizens should share same duty and enjoy same benefit, not banning certain groups of people from certain duty and force them to pay tax for those banning.

[Simon Cashmere]

Muslims go to the army, the non-muslims don't. Its called conscription and hence why this tax is paid. Its to ensure that they remain safe. They are not treated as second-class citizens. And Islam has to do with politics. Thats why this thread is Islamic Socialism.

Yeah sure.....

They are not only treated as second class citizens, it is enshrined in law.

Dhimmis cannot wear any clothes that would make them mistaken for being muslims. They must wear an identifying mark or clothing in order to demonstrate that they are Jews or Christians. They must bow as muslims come along, and move out of their way when they do. They cannot ever build a house taller than a muslim. They cannot participate in any part of the government, and must pay the jizya. They also are regularly 'pogrommed' at various intervals to let them know their place, on the flimsiet of pretexts, like some rumour saying a christian defamed Mohammed - oh noes, let's burn the christian houses and start a riot!

Also, dhimmis suffer collective punishment. If they ever complain about their treatment to outsiders, the whole covenant of protection can be voided. You often see Jews in Iran trying to tell Israeli Jews to be quiet for this very reason. They are afraid of being held responsible.

They must also 'feel themselves subdued' when they pay the jizya. Says right there in the Koran.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

There is a great account of a Swedish or Swiss diplomat being forced to pay jizya under the Ottoman Empire, even though he was a European and a diplomat. Just another dhimmi. It's an interesting read, I'll see if I can find it.

Islamic socialism, what a crock. What 'working class' is there in Islam? Other than slaves. Islamic society wants other unter mensch Christians and jews to do the work, while tough guys with AK-47s either sip tea in cafes all day or ride around in pickup trucks paid for with Saudi money wearing headbands shouting 'Allah Akbar.' They don't want to work, and that's the main reason there can never be peace in Gaza, then the tough guys in HAMAS would have to actually *work* for a living. Perish the thought.

The only socialism connected with islam, is that of the socialists allying with Islam against the capitalist Western democratic state to ensure its destruciton.

[Atatürk]

Lol, that is ridiculous, why non-Muslims (and what the heck does Islam has to do with politic??) have to pay an extra tax for same benefit as a Muslim? Are you making non-Muslims as some second-class citizens?

Open your eyes and take a look at Israel.

[hellheaven1987]

Open your eyes and take a look at Israel.

Oh my, did I ever say Israel is a model country?

There is no oppression, the Zakaat cannot be given to the poor of non-Muslim status. This tax imposed on the middle class and the rich is not oppression, but its another form Zakaat which allows the poor of non-Muslim to take part in the government run free housing, free education and free health. On top of this, they have no part in the armed forces.

Irony enough your idea is to oppress non-Muslims' free will to join armed force and forcing middle class to pay fee to feed poors.

[Jaketh]

hmm, combining two fails into one gigantic fail. Im sure that will work

[Visna]

Discrimination shall be stopped thanks to Islamic Socialism. All those who live in the country are its citizens. However, since the majority of them are usually Muslim, non-Muslims will be able to apply for all positions in the government with the exception of important posts.

The irony is razorsharp.

[Blaze86420]

That's preposterous! Why should non-Muslims be paying an extra tax? The Jizya was only put in place to secure the loyalty of non-Muslim towns and villages. Nationality and citizenship render the dhimmi system useless, theres simply no point in making them pay extra and not allowing them to fight for their own country.

And also, why should private business and property be forbidden? While Islam does stress the importance of helping the poor and setting an equal footing, it also caters to individualism and materialism (as long it does not exploit the poor and the environment of course). It is human nature, you just can't suppress that. The Caliphates had one of the first market economies in history, and you're telling me that private ownership contradicts Islam? Now I would call my self a leftist, but this is taking it way too far.

[hellheaven1987]

Now you know why we are worrying the situation in Egypt got out of control.

[Blaze86420]

Now you know why we are worrying the situation in Egypt got out of control.

Didn't the brotherhood already say that they won't be partaking in any government reformation? I'm not even sure they fully support the protests, if there's a good chance of them taking over its now and yet they aren't doing anything.

[Lord Zhang Ku]

My god. CAQ, do you not understand that freedom of speech, and by extension, Freedom of Religion form the foundations of democracy. Anything that would favor one religion over another is a violation of that. Get your mind out of the middle ages. If you could for once in your life get over your anicent grudges, then maybe you wouldn't say such stupid stuff.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

My god. CAQ, do you not understand that freedom of speech, and by extension, Freedom of Religion form the foundations of democracy. Anything that would favor one religion over another is a violation of that. Get your mind out of the middle ages. If you could for once in your life get over your anicent grudges, then maybe you wouldn't say such stupid stuff.

I don't believe in democracy where you can either choose one old rich dude or another old rich dude or a rich old woman. Democracy is totally corrupt and unworkable.

What ancient grudges if I may ask.

[Lord Zhang Ku]

I don't believe in democracy where you can either choose one old rich dude or another old rich dude or a rich old woman. Democracy is totally corrupt and unworkable.

What ancient grudges if I may ask.

Against America of course. What America has done in the past has been bad, i'll give you this. But if you understood anything about free nations and how they are supposed to work, then you'll realize, yes there are rich people on the ballot, and their is a high chance they are going to win. That doesn't mean the poor person won't win. I mean look at the US. We spend millions upon millions of dollars during election season. But the guy who had only one house beat the guy with five. A truly free society exists in a state where it's what the candidate is for that determines elections, if not rigged like in some countries, not the social status. A real democracy is for the people by the people. Your supposed democracy is for the muslims by the muslims. it completely alienates all non-muslims. I understand there are many countries in the middle east that have nearly 100% muslim populations. But that still means that somewhere there's a christian, a druze, a hindu, a bahai who can't vote because your idea of democracy has a stick up its butt.

[Blaze86420]

But what does that have to do with oppressing religious minorities?

[Central Asian Qaghan]

But what does that have to do with oppressing religious minorities?

There is no oppression, the Zakaat cannot be given to the poor of non-Muslim status. This tax imposed on the middle class and the rich is not oppression, but its another form Zakaat which allows the poor of non-Muslim to take part in the government run free housing, free education and free health. On top of this, they have no part in the armed forces.

[Blaze86420]

There is no oppression, the Zakaat cannot be given to the poor of non-Muslim status. This tax imposed on the middle class and the rich is not oppression, but its another form Zakaat which allows the poor of non-Muslim to take part in the government run free housing, free education and free health. On top of this, they have no part in the armed forces.

But why should we overtax the middle and upper class into oblivion? And why shouldn't non-Muslims join the army? And lastly, why should they be taxed extra for receiving benefits Muslim citizens get for free? I'd never want a system like this adopted in any future Palestinian state, this is oppressive.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

But why should we overtax the middle and upper class into oblivion? And why shouldn't non-Muslims join the army? And lastly, why should they be taxed extra for receiving benefits Muslim citizens get for free? I'd never want a system like this adopted in any future Palestinian state, this is oppressive.

What overtaxing? 2.5% of the wealth yearly is taxing them to death? Did I mention there was no tax on income since I didn't list it there on top? There is no overtaxing on anyone. The Muslim pay a mandatory Zakaat and the others pay a tax (not jizya) that the same for 2.5% for everyone.

[Blaze86420]

Ok, just to clear up any misunderstandings. Muslim citizens pay just as much non-Muslim citizens, yes?

And how do you justify exemption from military service? And restricting private ownership?