New Report Indicates the Army is 'The Thin Green Line'

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.ph...18&id=12522775

According to a policy agency contracted to do a study on the status of the Army presently, the results are what many have been fearing for some time. The Army is losing its appeal to the young people across America, and in the present situation cannot maintain the current deployment levels in Iraq and Afghanistan for a great deal longer.

This strikes me as interesting. This agency is non-profit, and doesn't really have a political agenda. They were contracted by the Pentagon to perform this study, they didn't do it of their own willpower. I see very little reason for them to fabricate results like these.

It should be interesting to see what the ideologues will say to this news, since they've been accusing anyone who suggested that the Army was losing some of its potency to the current military situation as anti-Americans. This report seems to lend more credit to the fact that, while the Army isn't broken, it is facing an institutional crisis of manpower and recruitment that will jeopardize it's capabilities in Iraq and Afghanistan should those commitments take us far into the future.

And it also might hamstring any future military action against another terrorist state (cough cough Iran).

[Darth Wong]

For years the Army marketed itself as an opportunity: an opportunity to get free college tuition, a trade, a way out of poverty, etc. This message has pretty much evapourated in the face of the Iraq War, which forcefully reminded people that it's also an opportunity to get killed, horribly wounded, maimed, or perhaps grotesquely disfigured for life. There are guys coming back from Iraq who are missing half their faces due to an IED. That is not cool. For every guy who dies in the line of duty, there are nearly 10 guys who were wounded, some in terrible ways.

Moreover, the Army has been calling up older reservists and retired guys: all sorts of people who thought they had done their bit for king and country already, and forcing them to go back.

All of this severely weakens the Army's appeal for young people, because it's a lot easier to wax poetic about dying for your country than to actually do it.

[Attalus]

None of these guys are conscripts. Ask a soldier if he would rather let someone else take on his hardships and dangers for him.

From day one you are in the picture. You know and understand the risks. You know what the job is and what could happen.

Anyone who joins the military as a means to an end should seriously consider their service.

At the same time, Governments should think long and hard about what they ask their soldiers to do on their nations behalf, and compensate then accordingly.

I think that if you put your LIFE on the line for your nation, its people and ideals then you never pay taxes again.

EVER.

[Darth Wong]

That's the problem though; for decades the Army marketed itself to people on the basis of opportunity rather than duty.

Did you know that they've been accepting recruits with low ASVAB scores in order to keep their numbers up? Considering what I've heard about the ease of getting a good score on the ASVAB, that's disturbing to say the least; they're literally allowing morons into the Army in order to keep their numbers up.

[Atheist Peace]

That's the problem though; for decades the Army marketed itself to people on the basis of opportunity rather than duty.

Did you know that they've been accepting recruits with low ASVAB scores in order to keep their numbers up? Considering what I've heard about the ease of getting a good score on the ASVAB, that's disturbing to say the least; they're literally allowing morons into the Army in order to keep their numbers up.

That is a shame, the army hardly consists of geniuses anyway, and dumbing it down certainly won't help it in any aspect. Now please, I'm not suggesting the army consists of retards or something, I'm only saying that in general, the military is not the smartest of society. Often, it is made up of a lot of people who did not do well enough in school to otherwise have a decent academic future. My cousin is an example of this, his grades were never very good, and didn't really have a college future, so he joined the navy. He's actually in Iraq, near the Syrian border, right now.

[Vercingetorix]

Did you know that they've been accepting recruits with low ASVAB scores in order to keep their numbers up? Considering what I've heard about the ease of getting a good score on the ASVAB, that's disturbing to say the least; they're literally allowing morons into the Army in order to keep their numbers up.

It is fairly easy, I got a 93% and that was on an empty stomach and after sitting in traffic for a couple of hours. As for the Army lacking manpower, that has been a problem for the past few years. The Air Force on the other hand is doing too well and has had too many recruits. I guess the less likelihood of getting killed, combined with all the same benefits is more appealing than the Army.

[Last Roman]

Moreover, the Army has been calling up older reservists and retired guys: all sorts of people who thought they had done their bit for king and country already, and forcing them to go back.

thats because they have been forced to. They dont have the incoming numbers they need. It is a quandry the army somehow needs to fix.

[danzig]

And its not just the US military http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/54884.html military service is hard to sell in times in war I mean its pretty logical alot more people would think twice. I know people have knocked the military for raising the age limits and offering really large bonuses but if your asking someone to most likely risk their life its generally a good idea to make it worth it to them to do so. Ive had some friends go 40,000 bonus oh they are just bribing someone to join up and to me its just money compared to what your asking someone to sign up and do why wouldnt you offer them everything possible given the risks they will endure? It seems to be the Army suffering the most as all the other services met their recruitment goals.

[bigfootedfred]

The problem began as shallow cut.
Its quickly becomming a full blown hemorage

21 of the Of the US's 31 combat brigades, are on active deployment.
Tours have duty have had to be extended. and cash incentives are given to re-enlist"
why?

Well, for every soilder on an active mission, it should be assumed that 2 more are in reserve.
For rotation, or getting ready for rotation.

This report from "GovExec" in 2003, warns of many of the problems, that we are seeing today.

About:
GovExec.com is government's business news daily and the premier Web site for federal managers and executives. Government Executive in its print incarnation is a biweekly business magazine serving senior executives and managers in the federal government's departments and agencies. Our subscribers are high-ranking civilian and military officials who are responsible for defending the nation and carrying out the many laws that define the government's role in our economy and society.

Army troops, budget stretched to the limit

Experts who have studied how the dynamic of overstressed troops, inadequate funds, and rapid change turned the U.S. Army of the 1970s into a "hollow force" warn of a repeat in today's Army. The Army has begun to cancel or postpone many exercises and training rotations; the Los Angeles Times recently reported that since October 1, 2002, the Pentagon has canceled or postponed 49 of the 182 training exercises scheduled for this fiscal year. The Army has also canceled coveted slots at the Army's National Training Center in the California desert and the Joint Readiness Training Center in Louisiana, where entire brigades go through intense maneuvers that are the closest thing to real combat.

Meanwhile, the Army is scouring units worldwide for Humvees, especially the armored variety, to fill acute shortages in Iraq. The Army Materiel Command recently reported that it has a months-long backlog of orders for replacement tracks for its Abrams tanks, Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and Paladin self-propelled howitzers, because of unexpectedly high wear and tear in Iraq. Electrical generators are likewise in short supply.

If such signs of growing stress on the organization go unheeded,
lagging indicators such as retention and recruitment dips may follow

This report from the BBC 2 years ago, highlights some issues, most of which have only gotten worse

Analysis: US military overstretch

Many soldiers and their families in what is still an all-volunteer army are unhappy - and the latest efforts by the Pentagon to maintain unit cohesion by preventing troops from leaving the service while their units are deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan will only add to the pressures.
That is why cash inducements are being offered to get troops to re-enlist.
Bear in mind that the US military is also undergoing a period of profound transformation, with some units adapting to new roles and new equipment.

The hope was that peacekeeping or security duties could then be handed over to other countries.
Instead, the US has had to shoulder the bulk of the burden.
This means extending tours of duty, drawing more on reserves and getting the marine corps into the peacekeeping business.

The Pentagon used to have a planning guideline of being able to fight two medium-sized wars almost at the same time.
That now looks like fantasy as military planners cope with dealing with a sizeable commitment in Iraq that could last for years.

[Lee1026]

I doubt that they have much a option in terms of recruits. Everyone I know who have reasonablely good scores (80%+ percentile) in the ASVAB is only interested in becoming officers, if they are interested in serving in the army at all. The Army can't be made up of officers alone.

[Lee1026]

Really? You need to tell that to any recuriter in Dec 8, 1941. They most certainly agree with you.

[danzig]

Really? You need to tell that to any recuriter in Dec 8, 1941. They most certainly agree with you.

Different type of war, after 9/11 the military had an influx of people signing up including 'famous' people like Tillman. Once it shifted towards Iraq that changed because it turned into a different conflict, a different set of aim and goals. Afganistan was to 'blame' for 9/11 for providing sanctuary to people who organzied it hence it provided purpose and reason while Iraq is disconnected (despite how the attempt was made to sell it) from that but hey dont let that stop you from making meaingless comparisons. What is more interesting to me is the people who have served in Iraq and their high reenlistment rate.

[Handsome Huss]

I'd read about this a couple of weeks ago, about how the military is lowering its standards to fill its recruiting needs. It is exactly how Darth Wong put it. Here it is a little more in detail though:

To start, they have relaxed their restrictions on high school dropouts.
Then, for the testing, applicants who score in the lowest third of the test, are Category IV, and Category V. The army has been very strict on allowing Category IVs in for the past 20 years. A very small number have been able to join. Category V represents applicants who are in the lowest 10 percent. The army has always deemed them as ineligible for service, but if trends continue, this may change.

Now, before the war, 92 percent of army recruits were high school graduates, and only 0.6% were Category IVs. In September of 2005, the Defense Department released their numbers. At that time, 4% of army recruits are Category IVs, which has pretty much done away with the 2% limit that has been in place since the 80's.
In October, as much as 12% of that month's new recruits were Category IVs.
Then, in November...army officials will not say what the number is, except that it is in the double digits.
If this continues, they may very well start taking Cat Vs...

Most can tell you that a soldier's most effective weapon is his brain. A stupid soldier is nothing more than a grunt, and useless in combat. Anybody who wishes to argue that soldiers dont need anything but muscle, since all they do is run around and play with guns, well, here's some more stats:

A series of tests were conducted on a number of soldiers in varying categories.
For one, they tested tank gunners. A Category III-A (ranks in the 50-64 percentile) has a 34% better chance of hitting a target than a Category IV (10-30 percentile).
Next, soldiers from the active-duty signal battalions were given the task of making a communications system operational. Category III-A soldiers had a 67% chance of completing this task. Category IV soldiers had only a 29% chance.
Another test was conducted on these soldiers, to see if they could identify the problems with faulty communications gear. Of Category I soldiers (93-99 percentile), 97% passed. Of Category III-A soldiers, 60% passed. Of Category IV soldiers...25% passed.
Here's another for the air-defense units. The test was to see how many Patriot missiles they had to fire in order to destroy 10 targets. Category I soldiers had to fire 20. Category IV soldiers..24. A small margin maybe, but that is 20% more hardware used. Also, if each patriot missile costs $2 million, that is $8 million more that that Cat IV soldier has just used up.

[Lee1026]

Well, we can have these Cat IV soldiers as cooks. Food don't cost that much.

[Handsome Huss]

Well, we can have these Cat IV soldiers as cooks. Food don't cost that much.

Ok, you've completely missed the point of this thread. The army is stretched thin and needs recruits. They need these recruits to fill their vital combat roles. There is a lack of higher category enlistees, so they need to start filling these combat positions with lower scoring (Cat IV) recruits.

[IronBrig4]

The Air Force and Navy don't seem to be having recruiting problems. I wanted to apply for Air Force OTS. The branch I wanted (security because I have my degree in criminal justice) is closed until August of this year.

The Army is resorting to cash bounties, just like they did during the Civil War. The system was abused, because a guy from, say, Rhode Island could enlist for the bounty, then immediately desert and go to Connecticut or Massachusetts and repeat the process. Fortunately, electronic transfers and shared information preclude such unscrupulous activity.

[Richard the Lionheart]

I wonder if they'll ever consider bringing back the Draft. Even though that would be political suicide. Either way, if it ultimately becomes necessary, then they'll have to bring back the Draft.

[danzig]

I wonder if they'll ever consider bringing back the Draft. Even though that would be political suicide. Either way, if it ultimately becomes necessary, then they'll have to bring back the Draft.

They would sooner pull all troops out of Afganistan and Iraq tomorrow if it came to choice of draft or not, it would be instant suicide.

[Last Roman]

They would sooner pull all troops out of Afganistan and Iraq tomorrow if it came to choice of draft or not, it would be instant suicide.

agreed, whoever instated the draft can be guaranteed not to win the next round of elections.

[Kanaric]

Their is this one woman I know who has been on reserve for over 20 years and has been called up. She has a lot of problems in her life as well, especially with her mother who she can't afford to put into a "home" and needs to take care of her.

In the past the reserve was mostly you go to a place and train for a weekend once a month, now it means you have to go to Iraq and fight. I can see a lot LESS people signing up for reserve in the future. Especially since they lie to you and say your only going to be their for, say, a year and they up you for twice that.