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    Gimli's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor.

    Here we can talk about the past of Middle earth and Numenor, you can learn new facts from people on the forums or learn new facts from this website: http://www.tuckborough.net/ .


    We will talk about....The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and other writings by J.R.R. Tolkien and The Thains Book. This will be the talk about everything good in Middle earth.

    War of the Elves and Sauron

    Battle over the Rings of Power in the Second Age. The War of the Elves and Sauron was fought in Eriador. It lasted from 1693 to 1701 of the Second Age. Sauron suffered a temporary defeat but gained possession of the Nine Rings and six of the Seven Rings.

    The Rings of Power were forged by the Elven-smiths of Eregion starting around 1500. They had gained the skills to make the Rings from Sauron, who had deceived them about his identity. The Elves made the Nine Rings and the Seven Rings with Sauron's help. Celebrimbor made the Three Rings alone, but he used the skills he had learned from Sauron. Around 1600, Sauron forged the One Ring to control all the others. The Elves realized they had been tricked and they hid the other Rings of Power from him.
    Sauron was enraged, and he declared war on the Elves in 1693. His forces invaded Eriador in 1695 and he proceeded to Eregion to capture the Rings. Celeborn led a sortie from Eregion to meet the vanguard of Sauron's army. He was joined by reinforcements from Lindon led by Elrond. But the Elves were outnumbered by Sauron's forces and they were cut off from Eregion.
    Eregion was conquered by Sauron's forces in 1697. Sauron went to the House of the Mirdain in Ost-in-Edhil where the treasures of the Elven-smiths were kept. Celebrimbor tried to stop him but he was captured. Sauron found the Nine Rings and he had Celebrimbor tortured until he revealed the location of the Seven Rings. One of the Seven had already been given to Durin III of Khazad-dum but Sauron claimed the others.
    Celebrimbor refused to reveal the whereabouts of the Three Rings. Narya and Vilya had been sent to Gil-galad in Lindon, while Nenya had been given to Galadriel. Sauron had Celebrimbor put to death and mounted his body on a pole like a banner before his army.
    Elrond's forces tried to stop Sauron but they were nearly overwhelmed. Then Durin III led an assault on the rear of Sauron's army, allowing Elrond to escape northward, where he established the refuge of Rivendell. The Dwarves retreated into Khazad-dum and shut the gate so that Sauron was unable to pursue them.
    Sauron guessed the location of the Three Rings, and he intended to attack Lindon. He overran Eriador in 1699, ravaging the land and slaying Elves and Men as he went. He sent a force to guard Rivendell where many Elves had gathered to prevent Elrond from attacking from the rear. His forces were therefore diminished when he reached Lindon.
    At the River Lune on the border of Lindon, Sauron's army was met by the forces of Gil-galad and some Men of Numenor. Tar-Minastir, the King of Numenor, had assembled a fleet in response to Gil-galad's request for help but it had not yet come. The Elves and Men defended the line of the river until at last in 1700 the fleet arrived led by Admiral Ciryatur.
    Sauron's forces were defeated by the combined forces of the Elves and Men of Numenor, and the remainder of his army retreated southeastward. At Sarn Ford on the Brandywine, Sauron's forces were further reduced in a bloody battle. At Tharbad, Sauron was joined by reinforcements, but at the same time additional forces from Numenor came ashore at Lond Daer at the mouth of the Greyflood, or Gwathlo, and attacked from the rear.
    At the Battle of the Gwathlo in 1701, Sauron's forces were completely defeated. At the same time, his forces guarding Rivendell were crushed by Gil-galad and Elrond. Eriador was freed of enemy forces, but the land was in ruins. Sauron escaped with a small force through the Gap at the southern end of the Misty Mountains. He was again attacked in eastern Calenardhon until only he and his bodyguards remained. Sauron returned to Mordor and vowed to take revenge against the Men of Numenor.

  2. #2
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    What happened to the dwarwes who got the rings? And why did only men become wraiths?

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    Scorpius Centaurus's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Don't we already have a thread called the "Tolkien general discussion" for this kind of thing? No need to have two very similar threads.

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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpius Centaurus View Post
    Don't we already have a thread called the "Tolkien general discussion" for this kind of thing? No need to have two very similar threads.
    This. Move it over to the other thread.

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    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Gimli10 & co since we're clearly not wellcome here I suggest you to take a look at the message boards at theonering.net

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    Gimli's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    Gimli10 & co since we're clearly not wellcome here I suggest you to take a look at the message boards at theonering.net
    What? In welcome here? Well, this is a public forum for TATW fans and LOTR Fans. Your welcome here? Waatt, you make no sense what so ever.

  7. #7

    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Aule crafted the Dwarves originally and gave them an indomitable spirit, as Aule knew full well the perils of Arda, in which Morgoth was at large at the time of their making, no dwarf could be enslaved so. The rings rather warped their spirit with greed and enflamed their pride. The line between indomitable and rash or even madness can be slim indeed.

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    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Is that why they awoke the Balrog in Khazad-dum?

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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    Is that why they awoke the Balrog in Khazad-dum?
    Well Tolkien (as far as I know) never went into much detail with this. However I think that it's the general consensus that the dwarves were just really greedy and mined as hard and for as long as they could. They may have ignored some distressing signals that there may have been something wrong because of their greed but I think that it was just incredibly bad luck for them.

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    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemoniser View Post
    Well Tolkien (as far as I know) never went into much detail with this. However I think that it's the general consensus that the dwarves were just really greedy and mined as hard and for as long as they could. They may have ignored some distressing signals that there may have been something wrong because of their greed but I think that it was just incredibly bad luck for them.
    Yes but were the rings source of their greed and ignorance?

  11. #11

    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    Yes but were the rings source of their greed and ignorance?
    As I remember it dwarves were always greedy to a point. IIRC this was part of the reason of the war between themselves and the elves. So the rings were not the source of their greed. However they could have easily enhanced their greed. This is supported by the fact that by the war of the ring the dwarves were a lot less hostile. Legolas and Gimli eventually became good friends and dwarves and Elves often fought together in the north. It could be argued that they had merely learnt their lesson or decided that unifying against sauron was their only chance or it could be argued that the loss of the 7 rings brought about this change. To be honest I've never though about the 7 rings as a factor but they certainly could have been.

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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    A balrog hid underneath the world for thousands of years waiting , and then it emerged in Moria
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    You made are good tread.

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    Wolfsblut's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    Well, its Gimlis 27. topic in 169 posts, everyone got his own hobby i guess...
    May the earth be light upon you, lest the dogs can dig you out more easy.

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    dannyalex's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: An encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor Discussion

    think this post from me belongs here...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Hope you enjoy,you could rate the article if you like it.

    "ERIADOR, ARNOR, AND THE HEIRS OF ISILDUR"

    ‘Eriador was of old the name of all the lands between the Misty Mountains and the Blue; in the South it was bounded by the Greyflood and the Glanduin that flows into it above Tharbad.

    ‘At its greatest Arnor included all Eriador, except the regions beyond the Lune, and the lands east of Greyflood and Loudwater, in which lay Rivendell and Hollin. Beyond the Lune was Elvish country, green and quiet, where no Men went; but Dwarves dwelt, and still dwell, in the east side of the Blue Mountains, especially in those parts south of the Gulf of Lune, where they have mines that are still in use. For this reason they were accustomed to pass east along the Great Road, as they had done for long years before we came to the Shire. At the Grey Havens dwelt Círdan the Shipwright, and some say he dwells there still, until the Last Ship sets sail into the West. In the days of the Kings most of the High Elves that still lingered in Middle-earth dwelt with Círdan or in the seaward lands of Lindon. If any now remain they are few.’

    The North-kingdom and the Dúnedain

    After Elendil and Isildur there were eight High Kings of Arnor. After Eärendur, owing to dissensions among his sons their realm was divided into three: Arthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan. Arthedain was in the North-west and included the land between Brandywine and Lune, and also the land north of the Great Road as far as the Weather Hills. Rhudaur was in the North-east and lay between the Ettenmoors, the Weather Hills, and the Misty Mountains, but included also the Angle between the Hoarwell and the Loudwater. Cardolan was in the South, its bounds being the Brandywine, the Greyflood, and the Great Road.

    In Arthedain the line of Isildur was maintained and endured, but the line soon perished in Cardolan and Rhudaur. There was often strife between the kingdoms, which hastened the waning of the Dúnedain. The chief matter of debate was the possession of the Weather Hills and the land westward towards Bree. Both Rhudaur and Cardolan desired to possess Amon Sûl (Weathertop), which stood on the borders of their realms; for the Tower of Amon Sûl held the chief Palantír of the North, and the other two were both in the keeping of Arthedain.

    ‘It was in the beginning of the reign of Malvegil of Arthedain that evil came to Arnor. For at that time the realm of Angmar arose in the North beyond the Ettenmoors. Its lands lay on both sides of the Mountains, and there were gathered many evil men, and Orcs, and other fell creatures. [The lord of that land was known as the Witch-king, but it was not known until later that he was indeed the chief of the Ringwraiths, who came north with the purpose of destroying the Dúnedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion, while Gondor was strong.]’


    In the days of Argeleb son of Malvegil, since no descendants of Isildur remained in the other kingdoms, the kings of Arthedain again claimed the lordship of all Arnor. The claim was resisted by Rhudaur. There the Dúnedain were few, and power had been seized by an evil lord of the Hill-men, who was in secret league with Angmar. Argeleb therefore fortified the Weather Hills;[20] but he was slain in battle with Rhudaur and Angmar.

    Arveleg son of Argeleb, with the help of Cardolan and Lindon, drove back his enemies from the Hills; and for many years Arthedain and Cardolan held in force a frontier along the Weather Hills, the Great Road, and the lower Hoarwell. It is said that at this time Rivendell was besieged.

    A great host came out of Angmar in 1409, and crossing the river entered Cardolan and surrounded Weathertop. The Dúnedain were defeated and Arveleg was slain. The Tower of Amon Sûl was burned and razed; but the palantír was saved and carried back in retreat to Fornost, Rhudaur was occupied by evil Men subject to Angmar,[21] and the Dúnedain that remained there were slain or fled west Cardolan was ravaged. Araphor son of Arveleg was not yet full-grown, but he was valiant, and with aid from Círdan he repelled the enemy from Fornost and the North Downs. A remnant of the faithful among the Dúnedain of Cardolan also held out in Tyrn Gorthad (the Barrowdowns), or took refuge in the Forest behind.

    It is said that Angmar was for a time subdued by the Elvenfolk coming from Lindon; and from Rivendell, for Elrond brought help over the Mountains out of Lórien. It was at this time that the Stoors that had dwelt in the Angle (between Hoarwell and Loudwater) fled west and south, because of the wars, and the dread of Angmar, and because the land and clime of Eriador, especially in the east, worsened and became unfriendly. Some returned to Wilderland, and dwelt beside the Gladden, becoming a riverside people of fishers.

    In the days of Argeleb II the plague came into Eriador from the Southeast, and most of the people of Cardolan perished, especially in Minhiriath. The Hobbits and all other peoples suffered greatly, but the plague lessened as it passed northwards, and the northern parts of Arthedain were little affected. It was at this time that an end came of the Dúnedain of Cardolan, and evil spirits out of Angmar and Rhudaur entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there.

    It is said that the mounds of Tyrn Gorthad, as the Barrowdowns were called of old, are very ancient, and that many were built in the days of the old world of the First Age by the forefathers of the Edain, before they crossed the Blue Mountains into Beleriand, of which Lindon is all that now remains. Those hills were therefore revered by the Dúnedain after their return; and there many of their lords and Kings were buried. [Some say that the mound in which the Ring-bearer was imprisoned had been the grave of the last prince of Cardolan, who fell in the war of 1409.]'

    ‘In 1974 the power of Angmar arose again, and the Witch-king came down upon Arthedain before winter was ended. He captured Fornost, and drove most of the remaining Dúnedain over the Lune; among them were the sons of the king. But King Arvedui held out upon the North Downs until the last, and then fled north with some of his guard; and they escaped by the swiftness of their horses.

    ‘For a while Arvedui hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf-mines near the far end of the Mountains, but he was driven at last by hunger to seek the help of the Lossoth, the Snowmen of Forochel.[22] Some of these he found in camp by the seashore; but they did not help the king willingly, for he had nothing to offer them, save a few jewels which they did cat value; and they were afraid of the Witch-king, who (they said) could make frost or thaw at his will But partly out of pity for the gaunt king and his men, and partly out of fear of their weapons, they gave them a little food and built for them snow-huts. There Arvedui was forced to wait, hoping for help from the south; for his horses had perished.

    ‘When Círdan heard from Aranarth son of Arvedui of the king's flight to the north, he at once sent a ship to Forochel to seek for him. The ship came there at last after many days, because of contrary winds, and the mariners saw from afar the little fire of drift-wood which the lost men contrived to keep alight. But the winter was long in loosing its grip that year; and though it was then March, the ice was only beginning to break, and lay far out from the shore.

    ‘When the Snowmen saw the ship they were amazed and
    afraid, for they had seen no such ship on the sea within their memories; but they had become now more friendly, and they drew the king and those that survived of his company out over the ice in their sliding carts, as for as they dared. In this way a boat from the ship was able to reach them.


    ‘But the Snowmen were uneasy; for they said that they smelled danger in the wind. And the chief of the Lossoth said to Arvedui: "Do not mount on this sea-monster! If they have them, let the seamen bring us food and other things that we need, and you may stay here till the Witch-king goes home. For in summer his power wanes; but now his breath is deadly, and his cold arm is long."

    ‘But Arvedui did not take his counsel. He thanked him, and at parting gave him his ring, saying: "This is a dung of worth beyond your reckoning. For its ancientry alone. It has no power, save the esteem in which those hold it who love my house. It will not help you, but if ever you are in need, my kin will ransom it with great store of all that you desire.”[23]

    'Yet the counsel of the Lossoth was good, by chance or by foresight; for the ship had not reached the open sea when a great storm of wind arose, and came with blinding snow out of the North; and it drove the ship back upon the ice and piled ice up against it. Even the mariners of Círdan were helpless, and in the night the ice crushed the hull, and the ship foundered. So perished Arvedui Last-king, and with him the palantíri were buried in the sea.[24] It was long afterwards that news of the shipwreck of Forochel was learned from the Snowmen.'

    The Shire-folk survived, though war swept over them and most of them fled into hiding. To the help of the king they sent some archers who never returned; and others went also to the battle in which Angmar was overthrown (of which more is said in the annals of the South). Afterwards in the peace that followed the Shire-folk ruled themselves and prospered. They chose a Thain to take the place of the King, and were content; though for a long time many still looked for the return of the King. But at last that hope was forgotten, and remained only in the saying When the King comes back, used of some good that could not be achieved, or of some evil that could not be amended. The first Shire‑thain was one Bucca of the Marish, from whom the Oldbucks claimed descent. He became Thain in 379 of our reckoning (1979).

    After Arvedui the North-kingdom ended, for the Dúnedain were now few and all the peoples of Eriador diminished. Yet the line of the kings was continued by the Chieftains of the Dúnedain, of whom Aranarth son of Arvedui was the first. Arahael his son was fostered in Rivendell, and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him; and there also were kept the heirlooms of their house: the ring of Barahir, the shards of Narsil, the star of Elendil, and the sceptre of Annúminas.[25]

    'When the kingdom ended the Dúnedain passed into the shadows and became a secret and wandering people, and their deeds and labours were seldom sung or recorded. Little now is remembered of them since Elrond departed. Although even before the Watchful Peace ended evil things again began to attack Eriador or to invade it secretly, the Chieftains for the most part lived out their long lives.

    Aragorn I, it is said, was slain by wolves, which ever after remained a peril in Eriador, and are not yet ended. In the days of Arahad I the Orcs, who had, as later appeared, long been secretly occupying strongholds in the Misty Mountains, so as to bar all the passes into Eriador, suddenly revealed themselves. In 2509 Celebrían wife of Elrond was journeying to Lórien when she was waylaid in the Redhorn Pass, and her escort being scattered by the sudden assault of the Orcs, she was seized and carried off. She was pursued and rescued by Elladan and Elrohir, but not before she had suffered torment and had received a poisoned wound.[26] She was brought back to Imladris, and though healed in body by Elrond, lost all delight in Middle-earth, and the next year went to the Havens and passed over Sea. And later in the days of Arassuil, Orcs, multiplying again in the Misty Mountains, begin to ravage the lands, and the Dúnedain and the sons of Elrond fought with them. It was at this time that a large band came so far west as to enter the Shire, and were driven off by Bandobras Took.'[27]

    There were fourteen Chieftains, before the fifteenth and last was born, Aragorn II, who became again King of born Gondor and Arnor. 'Our King, we call him; and when he comes north to his house in Annúminas restored and stays for a while by Lake Evendim, then everyone in the Shire is glad. But he does not enter this land and binds himself by the law that he has made, that none of the Big People shall pass its borders. But he rides often with many fair people to the Great Bridge, and there he welcomes his friends, and any others who wish to see him; and some ride away with him and stay in his house as long as they have a mind. Thain Peregrin has been there many times; and so has Master Samwise the Mayor. His daughter Elanor the Fair is one of the maids of Queen Evenstar.'

    It was the pride and wonder of the Northern Line that, though their power departed and their people dwindled, through all the many generations the succession was unbroken from father to son. Also, though the length of the lives of the Dúnedain grew ever less in Middle-earth, after the ending of their kings the waning was swifter in Gondor; and many of the Chieftains of the North still lived to twice the age of Men, and far beyond the days of even the oldest amongst us. Aragorn indeed lived to be two hundred and ten years old, longer than any of his line since King Arvegil; but in Aragorn Elessar the dignity of the kings of old was renewed.


    [20] I, 54.

    [21] I, 54.

    [22] These are a strange, unfriendly people, remnant of the Forodwaith, Men of far-off days, accustomed to the bitter colds of the realm of Morgoth. Indeed those colds linger still in that region, though they lie hardly more than a hundred leagues north of the Shire. The Lossoth house in the snow, and it is said mat they can run on the ice with bones on their feet, and have carte without wheels. They live mostly, inaccessible to their enemies, on the great Cape of Forochel that shuts off to the north-west the immense bay of mat name; but they often camp on the south shores of the bay at the feet of the Mountains'.

    [23] 'In this way the ring of the House of Isildur was saved; for it was afterwards ransomed by the Dϊnedain. It is said that it was none other than the ring which Felagund of Nargothrond gave to Barahir, and Beren recovered at great peril'.

    [24] 'These were the Stones of Annϊminas and Amon Sϋl. The only Stone left in the North was the one in the Tower on Emyn Beraid that looks towards the Gulf of Lune. That was guarded by the Elves, and though we never knew it, it remained there, until Cνrdan put it aboard Elrond's ship when he left (I, 34, 54). But we are told that it was unlike the others and not in accord with them; it looked only to the Sea. Elendil set it there so that he could look back with "straight sight" and see Eressλa in the vanished West; but the bent seas below covered Nϊmenor for ever'.

    [25] The sceptre was the chief mark of royalty in Nϊmenor, the King tells us; and that was also so in Arnor, whose kings wore no crown, but bore a single white gem, the Elendilmir, Star of Elendil, bound on their brows with a silver fillet'. (I, 54, III 54, 54, 54, 54). In speaking of a crown (I, 54, 54) Bilbo no doubt referred to Gondor; he seems to have become well acquainted with matters concerning Aragorn's line. 'The sceptre of Nϊmenor is said to have perished with Ar-Pharazτn. That of Annϊminas was the silver rod of the Lords of Andϊniλ, and is now perhaps the most ancient work of Men's hands preserved in Middle-earth. It was already more than five thousand years old when Elrond surrendered it to Aragorn (III, 54). The crown of Gondor was derived from the form of a Nϊmenorean war-helm. In the beginning it was indeed a plain helm; and it is said to have been the one that Isildur wore in the Battle of Dagorlad (for the helm of Anαrion was crushed by the stone-cast from Barad-dϋr that slew him). But in the days of Atanatar Alcarin this was replaced by the jewelled helm that was used in the crowning of Aragorn.'

    [26] I, 54

    [27] I, 10; III,54
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