basic but crucial question: how do attack/defence stats work?

Hi,

NTW is the first game from the TW line I play, so I'm sorry if this is obvious to most of you, but it's not in the manual, and I also couldnt find it anywhere in these forums:

How do the melee attack and defence stats of units actually take effect?

I found the same question being asked in these Empire forums http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/57649
but the responses sound contradicitive and not 100% certain. So I'm asking you: is this really the bottom line, as stated by a user in the forums above:
"the attack and defense disparities balance each other out. The troops with the biggest "gap" will die the fastest. In other words, if my men have A10 and D10, and the enemy has A15 and D5, the troops will actually die at a fairly even rate." ???

->this wouldnt make sense to me, why bother with seperate stats then if you might just as well add them up into 1 stat?

PLEASE, respond with what you can say for sure, not what you assume

thank you!

From the game itself, the attack and defense values are a gage of probability, so for example:

Let's take a standard infantry unit:
http://totalwar.honga.net/napoleon_u...e_British_Foot

• Melee Attack 7
• Charge Bonus 13
• Defence 11

Let's dissect: The melee attack, 7, means that in hand-to-hand fighting the unit will have 7/(Do not know what the maximum melee is, lets just say 50) chance of getting a kill.

The defense operates in much the same manner, 11/50 enemy attacks will be blocked/nulled.

Charge bonus I am not so sure on, but it basically boosts the initial attack value, I believe its just a matter of addition, so that an enemy that recieves a charge from this unit will be bearing the brunt of a "20" probability attack.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the max possible attack and defense values are, and thus can't do any exact number crunching for you.

oh I see, so every attack of each soldier is a matter of probability on is own!
well, this explains a lot, thank you! +Rep
how did you find that out, if I may ask?

Well when you scroll over the attack value in game its described as the "probablity of pulling off a successful attack." A bit of sniffin' around and comparing notes led me to conclude above how the system operates...and all that.

Originally Posted by Lowes

Well when you scroll over the attack value in game its described as the "probablity of pulling off a successful attack." A bit of sniffin' around and comparing notes led me to conclude above how the system operates...and all that.

ha, it's actually pretty obvious, now that you say it! Gotta look at all those mouseovers in the future.

However, this would still confirm that a unit X with A10 D5 would not lose more men then a unit Z with A5 D10, right?
the way I see it, unit X would attack, and its A10 would be gaged against the enemies D10, making the probability factor virtually zero. Then the same goes for unit Z attacking with 5 and X defending with 5.
5 - 5 = 0
Since it's a matter of probability, battles will always result in slightly different ways - but in a "perfect world" these two units would even each other out!
Seems like the only factor that could tip the balance would be who charges first, since the charge bonus would make an initial difference. (Not to mention morale and number of men. In my example the unit with fewer men would inevitably be the first to route)

You agree?

Yes, I do indeed agree, I have always thought there was a tad bit of randomization (due to probability) and you have put into words quite nicely. Obviously, factors do come into account, weight of numbers (more men = more chances for the probability to score, etc.), level of fitness (an exhausted unit vs a fresh unit, for example) and of course whom charges who.

That is why the CA devs often recommend you match a charge with one of your own, as it helps to nullify the bonus somewhat.