Isn't same morale penalty for dead general and fleeing general wrong?

I'm creating this topic on the basis of a morale values topic around here.

ATM N:TW currently gives a -6 penalty to troops if there general either dies or flees, I personally feel that if a general flees the troops should have a much greater penalty considering that the general didn't die bravely, he ran cowardly giving up every bit of hope.

What do you guys think?

Sounds reasonable.

Sounds brilliant! I would use it, even if it makes the task of protecting the general more difficult! Haha! Can anyone lead me in the direction of a realistic morale mod? Making them route earlier, and therefore having less losses?

Originally Posted by CarradiceFrench

Sounds brilliant! I would use it, even if it makes the task of protecting the general more difficult! Haha! Can anyone lead me in the direction of a realistic morale mod? Making them route earlier, and therefore having less losses?

I'd generally support lowering NTW's ridiculously high morale, but I'm not sure if routing earlier would necessarily reduce casualties, because what happens once the great rout begins? Exactly, you send your cavalry after them and slaughter them to a man.

from a balance point of view, I would say it's not warranted. Mostly because I find much easier to rout the general's unit than to actually kill him. So we'd get a better bonus more easily than a worse one.
Also, it would encourage people to try and NOT to kill the general aiming at the side of his unit in order to rout it, and get a better bonus, which doesn't really make much sense.
(this of course goes without mentioning how actually anti-historical is the whole "kill/rout the general!" thing in ETW and NTW, considering the fact that purposedly aiming at officers was frowned upon in the time period, but oh, well...)

I think you're on to something Dragooon. A general fleeing the field would likely be much more demoralizing than a general dying, especially if the general dies in brave fashion. If the man in charge isn't brave enough to stick around for the battle, why would the poor grunts who are in the thick of it?

for one, the poor grunts won't really notice what the general is doing. Actually they won't really even notice that he's dead or alive. A soldier's point of view of the battlefield is extremely limited. A general's leadership bonus, realistically, is not due to the amazing sight of his polished boots as he prances between common troops, it's simply the effect of his orders relayed through the chain of command to the units. Whether he's dead or alive and fleeing, the effect is the same, those orders don't come anymore, and officers are left to fend for themselves, hence the same effect on morale.

Originally Posted by Abriael

for one, the poor grunts won't really notice what the general is doing. Actually they won't really even notice that he's dead or alive. A soldier's point of view of the battlefield is extremely limited. A general's leadership bonus, realistically, is not due to the amazing sight of his polished boots as he prances between common troops, it's simply the effect of his orders relayed through the chain of command to the units. Whether he's dead or alive and fleeing, the effect is the same, those orders don't come anymore, and officers are left to fend for themselves, hence the same effect on morale.

The ones who are positioned far away or busy in melee or shootout wouldn't notice if he's fled or died, but any nearby units not in combat or being held in reserve probably would.

Even if it gives a -6, on H/H it doesn't make much of a difference the death of the general.

The current equality is quite fine.
If you start arguing with "realism": a general should never himself get involved in the battle at all, so there should be no area of influence around him, and his bodyguards would be very weak.
Also, he would not be able to be shot at with artillery at all (because that never happened either) or even attacked by "commando" cav unitss.
Since that is not the case, the general is a unit which is near the front quite regularly; so "unrealistic" is the status quo.

If you attack the general, you don't have an influence on whether he routs or is killed. If either bonus were larger than the other, it's basically random what happens; that's not a good thing for gameplay.