My concern over the successor Elites.

[Frost, colonel]

It is not that they cost a horrible amount and take twice as long to make, or that they are not supermen, it is their unit size on hugh settings of just 120 men that to me makes them not worth the money(besides the fact they are some of the best looking figures in the game).

I know they are supposed to be small in numbers to be a realistic representation, but so far after just a battle for example: a unit of 120 elites takes on a unit of 240, it is a bit unfair even if you do ok and come out of it ending up with 70-80 men, the units combat effectiveness is right down the pan and it's a real pain getting replacements when only a veritable super city in the right place can provide them.

Wouldn't a unit size of 160 men on hugh settings at least mean a unit would be combat effective in perphaps two decent scraps before a major refit?

Off subject but my 2 chevroned nellie unit was routed with heavy casualties by a small enemy (Makedon) generals cav unit, is this right?

[Wurzelgnom]

Well, consider that: They are elites, not supermen or gods. A full frontal charge into a pike-wall will also hurt them, obviously. Besides that, in my experience the EB-elites excel in keeping up the moral and doing slightly more damage than other units and not carving a path through an entire army. So even they have to be used wisely...

[Fondor_Yards]

EB is balanced and scaled, cost and combat wise, to be played at large settings. I find both Hypaspistai and Pheraspidai *which one are you talking about?* to be well worth having. I use them to hold the right flank of my phalanx, or to storm towns. They almost always roll up their flank and hit the rest of the enemy behind.

Plus remember what the successor kingdom's tactics were, hammer and anvil. The infantry is only meant to hold the enemy in place for the cavarly to finish them, not defeat the enemy on their own.

[Zenith Darksea]

I know what you mean about this actually. If you want to reflect their small numbers, aren't the cost and upkeep values enough without giving them too few men to make them worthwhile?

[Frost, colonel]

The Hypaspistai in the unit description 'are supposed to be in the absolute thick of it', in one engagement against 2 merged Ptolemic armies I wanted to start to role their flank but it was a unit of 200+ celts(ordinary types, not all covered in chain mail) hanging around their extreme flank that I needed to remove first but tackling them with just 120 men is unfair.

As for the Pheraspidai these are suppossed to be gap fillers and city assault troops, but in the latter role when EB often has such large unit sizes are IMO unsuited for the role because of such low numbers, but I do like the look of them in my army, it's just a shame I find them so 'delicate' in regards to troop strength.

[the_mango55]

they are not supposed to be able to take on the whole army at once (it is the Gastae which does that) they are simply there to be a very strong anchor at the end of the line, they are a mobile force that keeps your phalanxes from being flanked, and protects your cavalry before you use them as the "hammer." And they are also good for city and bridge assault and defense, because with the limited size openings it gives no advantags to units with more men. Since only a limited number of men can engage at the same time, the numerical superiority of the enemy only becomes an advantage when your elite troops get tired of killing them.

[QwertyMIDX]

In EB you all pay per man, not per unit. That's why a unit of Hypaspistai isn't 4000 Mnai. The forumla for unit cost goes like this (Sum of equipment and quality cost)X(cost conversion multiplier)X(number of men in the unit on large). It's not as you're being stiffed. You just have to use Elites as something other a tougher version of your normal units. That said there seems to a problem with the Hypaspistai, I think it's animation related and will hopefully be sorted out soon.

In a side note, in the next version of EB the Gaesatae will only have 60/120 men like most other elites.