A bit of political speculation...

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

Do you guys think the idea of hubris can apply to not just a person but to a nation?

Looking at the history of politics we see, from start to finish, the Akkadians, to the Babalonians, to the Achaemenid Empire, to the British Empire and right up to the Third Reich where a nations over confidence has proven to be its undoing...

Personally i see the State of Israel as getting its commupence in the third world war,or whatever the hell it's gonna be called, and maybe even a civil war in the states, due to the polar opposites present in their political agendas and even the different cultures one finds in New England to Alabama and even San Francisco, but is there some kind of force at play here? Or is it just arrogance in its purest form?

[King Gambrinus]

I think I'll kick things off : USA.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

I think I'll kick things off : USA.

Yeah i already mentioned it And what exactly do you mean? Care to elaborate?

[King Gambrinus]

Yeah i already mentioned it And what exactly do you mean? Care to elaborate?

Sure. Every empire eventually falls because of it's arrogance. Persia, Rome, Napoleonic France, The Second and Third Reichs, etc... Ambition always gets in the way.



The US seemed genuinely surprised with Wikileaks. Have they not heard of the digital age? One amazing hacker could take down some major players in the defence system. It's involvement in the Middle East has only gained them more enemies and more terrorists on their backs. I wouldn't be surprised if another 9/11 comes round the corner. They simply haven't learnt from that day and think they can stop terrorism by trying to invade and annexe terrorist havens like Afghanistan.


Their quest for globalization will prove far too much for them. The only reason they are a superpower today is because of a horrid war.


Then of course there is the "Atlantis" theory or whatever you want to call it...but that is will just cause argument, not debate, as it is highly unlikely and overstretched.


All I'm saying is, the American bubble will burst, either economically or digitally or whatever theory, and it'll be their fault, not somebody else's. Whether or not this bubble bursting is a good or bad thing, that is for you to decide if the quality of life is better or worse under their influence.

[Mr. Scott]

Yeah i already mentioned it And what exactly do you mean? Care to elaborate?

Umm the states in civil war?

The states aren't going to break up....
Do I hate democrats? No....
Do democrats hate me? No....

Do I disagree with democrats? Yes....

The culture is different just how Bavarian is different from Brandenburg. Or Northern French to Southern French. Or Northern Italian to Southern Italian.

The argument that the US is going to break up is as ridiculous as saying Britain would break up around 1900 - in which political bipartisanship was just as strong as the US's today.
Also, the US had more bipartisanship in the late 1800's than it does now.

The chances of this happening are about 0.000000001%

All I'm saying is, the American bubble will burst, either economically or digitally or whatever theory, and it'll be their fault, not somebody else's. Whether or not this bubble bursting is a good or bad thing, that is for you to decide if the quality of life is better or worse under their influence.

Bubbles don't build up for over a century. the US has claimed the number one spot since the dawn of the century. WW2 just knocked down all the people who had already lost the number one spot. The end of the Cold war brought down a #1 contender.
The reason the US is #1 today is because of geography, geographic location, its easily nationalistic people, and its vast resources. Not because of some illusionary growth - which is often the reason for bubbles.

So what is your basis for this bubble? Most empires collapse due to heavy, deeply rooted and unsolvable reasons. The problems the US has are fairly superficial and happens universally to all nations.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

Umm the states in civil war?

The states aren't going to break up....
Do I hate democrats? No....
Do democrats hate me? No....

Do I disagree with democrats? Yes....

Are you a hardline republican bible basher? I'd say a moderate at most... Extreme points of view lead to actual extremism.

The culture is different just how Bavarian is different from Brandenburg.

Never hear of the Seven year war.

Or Northern Italian to Southern Italian.

Err... Like the Lombard league that wants to cast off the Mezziogiorno?

The chances of this happening are about 0.000000001%

Ask a Frenchman prior to Napoleons rise to power could a Corsican be his emperor and im sure he would give a similar answer... We can't predict it but its certainly more likely than that.

Bubbles don't build up for over a century. the US has claimed the number one spot since the dawn of the century. WW2 just knocked down all the second place people. The end of the Cold war brought down a #1 contender.

Europe wasnt your backwards arsed cousin until after the First World War ground down all the major powerblocks through manpower and economic attrition.

So what is your basis for this bubble? Most nations collapse due to heavy, deeply rooted and unsolvable reasons. The problems the US has are fairly superficial and happen universally to all nations.

Yup just like the Roman Republic... Weren't the industrialist's in America trying to turn you guys fascist? Arent you losing your rights guaranteed under the constitution daily? Have you ever heard of the patriot act!

[Georgy Zhukov]

From what position are you speaking from? There has always been bickering and partisan warfare in the American system. There is no militarization of the states to speak of, the federal government has 100x the power that it had in 1860, I can actually get to New York in a day or talk to someone from across the country in an instant. Unemployment is at 10%, while not very good, it's hardly enough to cause a secession movement. And the difference in 'cultures' is hardly likely to cause armed conflict; I mean we're not talking sunni and shi'a here, we're talking heat fans and lakers fans. Do you have any evidence to support the claim that the Union will likely break up? And any far far future speculation is simply a moot point so you shouldn't be speculating on it in the first place.

Are you a hardline republican bible basher? I'd say a moderate at most... Extreme points of view lead to actual extremism.

The majority of American's are moderates and dislike both parties. Not to mention the majority of American's aren't interested in the political system what-so-ever so to say that they'll suddenly rise in arms is very far from the truth.

Never hear of the Seven year war.

So what during the second American Civil war are we going to have to fight against the french and their Indian Allies while Frederick the Great marches around from Prussia?

Yup just like the Roman Republic... Weren't the industrialist's in America trying to turn you guys fascist? Arent you losing your rights guaranteed under the constitution daily? Have you ever heard of the patriot act!

Yes the United States is suuuuuccccch a horrrible place to live, just the other day they closed down all of the newspapers and imposed a nationalized radio system! We have to say the pledge of allegiance once every hour or else we are taken by the Secret Service to work camps in western Virginia!

[PointOfViewGun]

France?

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

France?

Good point but me wants elaboration not just casual racism!

[PointOfViewGun]

Good point but me wants elaboration not just casual racism!

Well, they don't deal with foreigners as hospitable as other people even when the know perfect English other languages. They see themselves as very good patriots where WWII is a perfect proof of otherwise.

[Irish Warrior]

Iran. The Ayatollah (forgive my spelling) has led his country to the brink of oblivion.

His incessant war-mongering has proved fatal to millions of Iranians, Iraqis, etc...

Now, he want's to develop nuclear weapons!!? This, my friends, is most definetly hubris. And has shown us that you don't have to be an empire, or great nation to become a self-absorbed paradox.

In relation to paradox, I speak of course about the 8 or so year war with Iraq, millions of casualties for no gain, now I know the Ayatollah or even Iran didn't start that war, but it was their hubris which prevented them from asking for help, from an obliging American government.

That is my statement for Iran.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

Iran. The Ayatollah (forgive my spelling) has led his country to the brink of oblivion.

His incessant war-mongering has proved fatal to millions of Iranians, Iraqis, etc...

Now, he want's to develop nuclear weapons!!? This, my friends, is most definetly hubris. And has shown us that you don't have to be an empire, or great nation to become a self-absorbed paradox.

In relation to paradox, I speak of course about the 8 or so year war with Iraq, millions of casualties for no gain, now I know the Ayatollah or even Iran didn't start that war, but it was their hubris which prevented them from asking for help, from an obliging American government.

That is my statement for Iran.

Wasn't Iran still Britains puppet at that stage or am I jumping the gun chronologically speaking?

Sure. Every empire eventually falls because of it's arrogance. Persia, Rome, Napoleonic France, The Second and Third Reichs, etc... Ambition always gets in the way.



The US seemed genuinely surprised with Wikileaks. Have they not heard of the digital age? One amazing hacker could take down some major players in the defence system. It's involvement in the Middle East has only gained them more enemies and more terrorists on their backs. I wouldn't be surprised if another 9/11 comes round the corner. They simply haven't learnt from that day and think they can stop terrorism by trying to invade and annexe terrorist havens like Afghanistan.


Their quest for globalization will prove far too much for them. The only reason they are a superpower today is because of a horrid war.


Then of course there is the "Atlantis" theory or whatever you want to call it...but that is will just cause argument, not debate, as it is highly unlikely and overstretched.


All I'm saying is, the American bubble will burst, either economically or digitally or whatever theory, and it'll be their fault, not somebody else's. Whether or not this bubble bursting is a good or bad thing, that is for you to decide if the quality of life is better or worse under their influence.

Bellisimo!

[Vanoi]

A second Civil War in the USA? Over what? I remember an article about maybe 1 or 2 years ago from a Russian professor predicting that the USA would fall in 2010. Well, we are still here. Maybe one day we will loose our #1 status, but i seriously doubt we will be "collasping" anytime soon.

Also the article about the the predicted fall of US: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

[bushranger]

A second Civil War in the USA? Over what? I remember an article about maybe 1 or 2 years ago from a Russian professor predicting that the USA would fall in 2010. Well, we are still here. Maybe one day we will loose our #1 status, but i seriously doubt we will be "collasping" anytime soon.

Also the article about the the predicted fall of US: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

That was a entertaining read.I like the part about Alaska joining back up with Russia,funny stuff,and this guy is teaching future Russian diplomats!what hope does Russia have.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

From what position are you speaking from? There has always been bickering and partisan warfare in the American system. There is no militarization of the states to speak of, the federal government has 100x the power that it had in 1860, I can actually get to New York in a day or talk to someone from across the country in an instant. Unemployment is at 10%, while not very good, it's hardly enough to cause a secession movement. And the difference in 'cultures' is hardly likely to cause armed conflict; I mean we're not talking sunni and shi'a here, we're talking heat fans and lakers fans. Do you have any evidence to support the claim that the Union will likely break up? And any far far future speculation is simply a moot point so you shouldn't be speculating on it in the first place.

I'm speaking from an Irish Republican point of view... I think I would be seen as a socialist by your system though cos Republicanism in Ireland started out with socialist, workers unionism and not what you consider Republicanism... Emm well there are massive difference's in wealth between states. Take Texas and, oh i don't know, Hawaii and there is a massive disproportion in wealth...

The majority of American's are moderates and dislike both parties. Not to mention the majority of American's aren't interested in the political system what-so-ever so to say that they'll suddenly rise in arms is very far from the truth.

As were the vast majority of Irish people prior to the British's brutal execution of the 1916 Easter Rising but one minor up polarises people. So were the people of the Third Reich but when the Fuhrer gave em job's and a feeling of strength and purpose...

The States haven't been short of internecine warfare. off the top of my head i can call to mind

http://www.historynet.com/utah-war-u...n-settlers.htm
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/mgr02
http://ngeorgia.com/history/waltwar.html
And that happened in the fecking 70's! Its a scary world we live in once we scratch the surface and see what lies beneath

So what during the second American Civil war are we going to have to fight against the french and their Indian Allies while Frederick the Great marches around from Prussia?

No those were parallels to enlighten you... And you can bet your skinny arse the EU and Russia wont sit on their hands again though...

Yes the United States is suuuuuccccch a horrrible place to live, just the other day they closed down all of the newspapers and imposed a nationalized radio system! We have to say the pledge of allegiance once every hour or else we are taken by the Secret Service to work camps in western Virginia!

Give it time...
"The biggest threat to freedom is a large Military Industrial Complex" and
"If ever tyrrany come to this land it will be in the guise of a foreign enemy"

Well, they don't deal with foreigners as hospitable as other people even when the know perfect English other languages. They see themselves as very good patriots where WWII is a perfect proof of otherwise.

No people that don't bother to learn the local language are shunned... I'm a Francophile, hell my last two girlfriends were French,and they are really nice to you once you put some effort in... And Parisians are universally hated. Check out the Brittany, Gascony and Burgundy areas and you'll get a much warmer welcome. Stereotypes bite both ways kiddo... Broaden those horizons!

A second Civil War in the USA? Over what? I remember an article about maybe 1 or 2 years ago from a Russian professor predicting that the USA would fall in 2010. Well, we are still here. Maybe one day we will loose our #1 status, but i seriously doubt we will be "collasping" anytime soon.

Also the article about the the predicted fall of US: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

I was thinking something along the same lines, like the Roman Empire and to be honest the moral and political squabbles are what scare me most, and the whole massive military at home doesn't really help freedom now does it? Give it another decade, two at most, and we'll see the same thing Great link btw

Or maybe it'll be for resources...

P.S. For the attention of the Marshall


Its not too much of a stretch of the imagination to imagine this happening to Arab Americans too... Gingers are used to drive the point home.

P.P.S. Notice the Mural when the kids attack the bus? It says "Our Day will come!" which is a translation of Tíocfaidh ar lá! which is an IRA slogan...

[PointOfViewGun]

No people that don't bother to learn the local language are shunned... I'm a Francophile, hell my last two girlfriends were French,and they are really nice to you once you put some effort in... And Parisians are universally hated. Check out the Brittany, Gascony and Burgundy areas and you'll get a much warmer welcome. Stereotypes bite both ways kiddo... Broaden those horizons!

Meh, it's more probable to stumble upon a stereotypical arrogant Frenchman on the street. Sure, if you're gonna live there, learn the language but if you're simply there as a tourist or simply transiting through one of their train stations and get yelled at by the person at the information kiosk for asking a question in English then the problem doesn't lie with you. But, as I said they see themselves as the best people in the world with best of everything and don't take criticism nicely.

[Imperial]

and maybe even a civil war in the states, due to the polar opposites present in their political agendas and even the different cultures one finds in New England to Alabama and even San Francisco

Are you joking? Are you even from the US?

Edit: NVM, you're Irish. Goes to show how well Europeans are informed on the American public.

If you know anything about the US, you would know that there has been a big political divide ever since its formation.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

Are you joking?

Ugh please elaborate rather than boost your post count if you would be so kind...

[Imperial]

Ugh please elaborate rather than boost your post count if you would be so kind...

edit above.

[Fionn son of Cumhaill]

Are you joking? Are you even from the US?

Edit: NVM, you're Irish. Goes to show how well Europeans are informed on the American public.

If you know anything about the US, you would know that there has been a big political divide ever since its formation.

Believe me it's not envy my friend... I would rather be Irish than Californian.

As i said there are distinct cultural differences from region to region and State to State. I went there a few years back and the pure ignorance from New Yorkers to the Parochial Alabamans was frankly shocking. The only people who seemed half educated were Bostonians.

Read my previous posts as to the supposedly cement solid state's solidarity and I know there were British Loyalist's and American Revolutionaries during your nations birth pangs that were only accentuated by the rush West and the Louisiana Purchase et al. Please don't assume i'm ignorant due to my foreign nationality... Especially when talking about the scholarly wasteland that is America, granted with some pockets of enlightenment but they are few and far between from my experiences, but to every intelligent man there are a dozen bible bashing gun toting redneck's to his reason...