[EB AAR] Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Sparte

[Ranger Blue]

I agree with 1,10,11,12
I Disagree with 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
For similar reasons to those given my savage feat, also adding that mercs in EB are indeed very expensive (I believe a medium phalanx unit is ~5000Mnai, can't recall any others). Also, it's unlikely that there will be time to take Thermon AND Ambrakia within one cycle.
As for taking Thermon, it has a large garrison force and would require the Alliance army, which the Athenians control. Most likely, they will attempt to finish the Makedonians before taking Thermon.

I Propose that any remaining Spartans be removed from the Alliance army to be retrained, and that more hoplitai are raised in Sparte.
I Propose that using this Spartan army, we take Mytilene. Not only will this give us another city, but I believe it is likely to be lightly defender, and more importantly, when the time comes will give us a good base from which to launch attack into Asia Minor.

[SavageFeat]

I agree with 1,10,11,12
I Disagree with 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
For similar reasons to those given my savage feat, also adding that mercs in EB are indeed very expensive (I believe a medium phalanx unit is ~5000Mnai, can't recall any others). Also, it's unlikely that there will be time to take Thermon AND Ambrakia within one cycle.
As for taking Thermon, it has a large garrison force and would require the Alliance army, which the Athenians control. Most likely, they will attempt to finish the Makedonians before taking Thermon.

I Propose that any remaining Spartans be removed from the Alliance army to be retrained, and that more hoplitai are raised in Sparte.
I Propose that using this Spartan army, we take Mytilene. Not only will this give us another city, but I believe it is likely to be lightly defender, and more importantly, when the time comes will give us a good base from which to launch attack into Asia Minor.

Not only would Mytilene be an easy target but it would also give us more trade in the Aegean sea which is a very rich sea though im not sure if Sparta should focus on getting it as it is further away then from Athenai if we focus on gaining Thessaly's trust then perhaps a Spartan Mytilene is possible.

P.S. I am posting this from my kindle,and I tell you, it takes forever. Please excuse any gramatical errors!

and yes I understand and excuse it is quite hard.

Edit: WOOT!!!! 30 posts now I'm a rifleman
now off to play RS 1.6 the MOD im stuck with cause my comps crap be back in an hour or 2

[Molina]

It's hard to keep track of long-term orders ("eventually attack Epeiros"), plus the situation may always change. The orders being proposed now should be for the next year only.

This doesn't mean you can't have long term plans, of course you can. I just suggest they are proposed when the actions may be carried out in the next 4 seasons.

[Populus Romanus]

Men of Sparte, why doth thee dispisith thy words? I, for one, thought that my ideas were quite good, cosidering the current situation. Is anyone here suggesting that we allow Athenai to have a monopoly on Hellas? We must play a far more active military role than we have been so far, and Thermon and that Epeirote city (cannot open a new window to look up its name-damn the kindle!) represent the solution.

@Ranger Blue: two can play this game! I disagree with taking Lesbos, as Athenai has already placed dibs on it.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Propose: We take the island of Krete under the Spartan banner! It is in the middle of our soon-to-be trades routes in Africa, as well as away from the soon-to-be very hectic Greek Peninsula.

I do have a general discussion question about Mytilene. If we attack it, what are the odds of creating hostilites amongst the other peoples in the area. It is obvious that expansion into Asia Minor is a real possibility that lays on the horizon, my only concern is will it bring us more trouble earlier than we are ready for it?


*********************************************************
Proposal Updates:

Populus Romanus's 12 Points of War:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I PROPOSE that Hoplitai be trained
(2)I PROPOSE that mercenary Hoplitai be hired
(3)I PROPOSE that Thermon be captured
(4)I PROPOSE that Thermon be occupied
(5)I PROPOSE that Thermon be given a type II government
(6)I PROPOSE a declaration of war on Epeiros (not immediately, but soon, before the Athenai can do it)
(7)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be captured
(8)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be expelled
(9)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be given a level III government
(10)I PROPOSE that we ally with the Romanoi and use them to fight a war by proxy
(11)I PPOPOSE that Sparte annex Demetrias
(12)I PROPOSE that a type I government be constructed in Demetrias

Status: (1): 3 Agree
(2): 3 Disagree
(3) - (5): 2 Agree 1 Disagree
(6) - (9): 3 Disagree
(10) - (12): 3 Agree

Ranger Blue's Army Proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I Propose that any remaining Spartans be removed from the Alliance army to be retrained, and that more hoplitai are raised in Sparte.
(2)I Propose that using this Spartan army, we take Mytilene. Not only will this give us another city, but I believe it is likely to be lightly defender, and more importantly, when the time comes will give us a good base from which to launch attack into Asia Minor.

Status:
(1): Pending
(2): 1 Agree

***************

Sorry if this is a little early, but I figured life would be easier with all the proposals on one page.

[SavageFeat]

Propose: We take the island of Krete under the Spartan banner! It is in the middle of our soon-to-be trades routes in Africa, as well as away from the soon-to-be very hectic Greek Peninsula.

I AGREE to this proposal though before that is a definite yes have many city's are on krete? and which side is the port(s) on?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sorry if i use to many simleys they are just soo fun to use

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Kydonia is the only city, and the port if facing Greece.

[The Kybrothilian]

Molina, can you show us the current populations of each city, before we start producing more men at Sparta?

[SavageFeat]

Okay in saying that..... I still AGREE if the port was facing away i would have said no but with the port facing Greece i think that it would be a valuable asset as it would be able to (with a big enough port of course) trade with Athenai, Sparte, Rhodos and perhaps Chalkis.

Also I PROPOSE that the Attike/Thermopylae fort be abandoned as we have no more use for it and it needs troops garrisoned it for stay there and as seen before they can just walk arround it

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and we now have Demetrius which we can now use as our new fort for protecting Attike and the Peloponnese
I PROPOSE that Molina show us the Faction Diplomacy for factions such as Epirus, Macedon and Rome
I PROPOSE that we get a diplomat over to Asia Minor and get trade rights with some Successor Kingdoms (Seleucid's, Ptolemy's , Armenia and Pontos (have we cease fired with them yet? if not cease fire and trade rights)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

P.S. I'm really enjoying this AAR TY Molina for creating this i had this idea

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

but with Rome

but never got around to doing it and it has gotten my post count from 11 to 32

[The Kybrothilian]

I propose that Molina shows us the current population's of each of the koinon's cities.

I agree with retraining all current spartan units, but I still strongly advise against recruiting additional units from Sparte.

If our treasury is not in a good shape, then I disagree with recruiting mercenaries. We don't want to get bankrupt.

However, if we are in need of additional men, I propose that we recruit auxilia from the city of Korinthas, to increase our army's size,as they have lot of unused men.

[SavageFeat]

A shady old man with a big hunch and wearing a chiton walks into the halls of the council, while the council is discussing what should be done for the year. their was too much nice from the bickering men.
"SILENCE!" Boomed the old man.
No one believed that such an old man could have such a voice. The whole assembly went quiet to hear what he had to say. He just stood their for a moment taking in the silence looking around the men some old and some young, until one man in the back of the assembly dared to say something.
"Who are you? old man."
The old man, just stared at him and took off his hood. What was behind that hood was no man, it was some creature, mixed between a human and some sort of reptile. The whole assembly gasped.
"Who am I?!" Replied the old man "I am Agis the Soothsayer, as for what I am, I don't know."
"What are you doing here then?" yelled one of the younger more daring men.
"I am here, as i have seen Sparta grow weak, Sparta used to have a proud military tradition, but now you are weak. You have now, just NOW only have the power to attack Macedon. You may have liberated Korinthos and Demetrius, But who's help have you received? I hear that you are helping Those Athenians and the are helping you. This, this is good. when was it that the men of the Hellenes where at their strongest? when they were united! you are bickering to much with them. prove to be strong allies Sparta should provide most of the military in this Koinon Hellenon,
and Athens should provide the funding. I PROPOSE that you grow Sparta's Military and force Athens to pay the upkeep. I see too many men here in this assembly, that could be fighting. Those Barbarians to the north, the Macedonians should be destroyed! I PROPOSE that the Alliance Army be upgraded with more Spartan Military units. If Macedon is destroyed then you will be richer and could afford more fighting men and take on Epirus and if you are to be so daring the might that is Rome and Carthage and gain greatness. But before i leave I shall remind you, Who drove Persia back to where they came? it was you Sparta you defended Thermopylae only 300 of you of course, there were 3200 others of you but you made the main fighting force and drove thousands, no millions of Persian's to their deaths. the old man just stood there for a while. With that I leave you, and as he left the whole assembly not one soul said any thing. after he had disappeared in the distance each man heard the whisper of the man, you are destined for greatness men of Sparta, the gods will it. with a gust of wind the old man was not seen or heard again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmOH5f1J1Uc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcDM...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaJim...eature=related
Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, by Spartan law, we lie.

And with that I have a sudden urge to see 300 again that is the first and probably the last time I will ever wright something like that again. K sorry that the videos didn't work on this. but hopefully you will watch those videos Unfortunately they were the only good videos i could find. Sorry if some of the English wasn't very good English isn't my best subject though it is my first language.

[The Kybrothilian]

"wise Agis, I understand the need to enforce Sparte's superioty in combat, But had you considered our city's population. If I guess correctly, we still have less than 1000 inhabitants in our city, whilst Athenai bloats with more than 3000 inhabitants. If we continuosly recruit warriors, we might run out of men at the most critical moment. However, Wer can recruit new, more effective soldiers freely, if in turn disband from our army, warriors with less honourable methods, such as cavalry and ranged units. Spartans are best known being in the thick of fight with their spears, not throwing them, or outflanking foes. I do know the effectiveness of such troops though. The city of Korinthas can provide us with such troops. They have lot of able men, which are not currently fighting. Let us Spartans do the honourable fighting whilst our auxilia do the other jobs."

The brown bearded man then returned to his seat.

[SavageFeat]

"wise Agis, I understand the need to enforce Sparte's superioty in combat, But had you considered our city's population. If I guess correctly, we still have less than 1000 inhabitants in our city, whilst Athenai bloats with more than 3000 inhabitants. If we continuosly recruit warriors, we might run out of men at the most critical moment. However, Wer can recruit new, more effective soldiers freely, if in turn disband from our army, warriors with less honourable methods, such as cavalry and ranged units. Spartans are best known being in the thick of fight with their spears, not throwing them, or outflanking foes. I do know the effectiveness of such troops though. The city of Korinthas can provide us with such troops. They have lot of able men, which are not currently fighting. Let us Spartans do the honourable fighting whilst our auxilia do the other jobs."

The brown bearded man then returned to his seat.

this is true I must PROPOSE that all Spartan Cav and ranged units be returned to Sparta and disbanded and replaced with more, conventual spartan units e.g. melee type units with a hoplon and shield with the signature Lambda (pronounced Lamda). also perhaps we could recuit some cheap units in major city's and send them over to Sparta and disband them there

[MIDN Mainolfi]

I have changed Ranger Blues first proposal into two, because it is two seperate points, and people might not(haven't) agree with both. Scutarilegion, should I add one agree to Savage's point 6, and one disagree to 4 and 5?

**************************************************************************
OLD PROPOSALS:
Populus Romanus's 12 Points of War:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I PROPOSE that Hoplitai be trained
(2)I PROPOSE that mercenary Hoplitai be hired
(3)I PROPOSE that Thermon be captured
(4)I PROPOSE that Thermon be occupied
(5)I PROPOSE that Thermon be given a type II government
(6)I PROPOSE a declaration of war on Epeiros (not immediately, but soon, before the Athenai can do it)
(7)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be captured
(8)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be expelled
(9)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be given a level III government
(10)I PROPOSE that we ally with the Romanoi and use them to fight a war by proxy
(11)I PPOPOSE that Sparte annex Demetrias
(12)I PROPOSE that a type I government be constructed in Demetrias

Status:
(1): 3 Agree
(2): 4 Disagree
(3) - (5): 2 Agree 1 Disagree
(6) - (9): 3 Disagree
(10) - (12): 3 Agree

Ranger Blue's Army Proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I Propose that any remaining Spartans be removed from the Alliance army to be retrained,
(2)And I Propose that more hoplitai are raised in Sparte.
(3)I Propose that using this Spartan army, we take Mytilene. Not only will this give us another city, but I believe it is likely to be lightly defender, and more importantly, when the time comes will give us a good base from which to launch attack into Asia Minor.

Status:
(1): 1 Agree
(2): 1 Disagree
(3): 1 Agree


MIDNMainolfi's Proposal of Krete Invasion:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Propose: We take the island of Krete under the Spartan banner! It is in the middle of our soon-to-be trades routes in Africa, as well as away from the soon-to-be very hectic Greek Peninsula.

Status: 2 Agree

SavageFeats Points of Diplomacy and Recruitment, Misc:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I PROPOSE that the Attike/Thermopylae fort be abandoned as we have no more use for it and it needs troops garrisoned it for stay there and as seen before they can just walk arround it.

(2) PROPOSE that Molina show us the Faction Diplomacy for factions such as Epirus, Macedon and Rome

(3)I PROPOSE that we get a diplomat over to Asia Minor and get trade rights with some Successor Kingdoms (Seleucid's, Ptolemy's , Armenia and Pontos (have we cease fired with them yet? if not cease fire and trade rights)

(4)I PROPOSE that you grow Sparta's Military and force Athens to pay the upkeep. I see too many men here in this assembly, that could be fighting.

(5) I PROPOSE that the Alliance Army be upgraded with more Spartan Military units. If Macedon is destroyed then you will be richer and could afford more fighting men and take on Epirus and if you are to be so daring the might that is Rome and Carthage and gain greatness.

(6)I must the PROPOSE that all Spartan Cav and ranged units be returned to Sparta and disbanded and replaced with more, conventual spartan units e.g. melee type units with a hoplon and shield with the signature Lambda (pronounced Lamda). also perhaps we could recuit some cheap units in major city's and send them over to Sparta and disband them there

Status:
(1): 2 Agree
(2): 2 Agree
(3): 2 Agree
(4): Pending
(5): 2 Agree
(6): 1 Agree

Scutarilegion's Two Cents:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I propose that Molina shows us the current population's of each of the koinon's cities.
(2)I propose that we recruit auxilia from the city of Korinthas, to increase our army's size,as they have lot of unused men.

Status:
(1) 1 Agree
(2) 1 Agree

NEW PROPOSALS:

MIDN Mainolfi's proposal of friendly domestic relations:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Proposal: We should somehow establish a direct line of communication with at least one of the Athenian council. True, in the past, we have had visitors to this council, however, it was less than friendly, as well as having an unfortunate execution in the Athenian council. If we could have regular communications between our peoples, or perhaps even just special dates assigned to meetings between the two councils, we could achieve great goals?

Status: 1 Agree


Ranger Blue's Heavy Skirmisher Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I Propose that the heavy skirmishers be replaced with lighter troops. We do not currently need the armour and it costs more upkeep.

Status: Pending

Athenian Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cassibellane:
I, an Athenian, PROPOSE to this Spartan Council that we allow Chremonides to engage mercenary troops to relieve Demetrias and strengthen the garrison there. If it is still possible. I ask this of the Spartan Council because the finances of our alliance are controlled from this place. The only way we can afford any mercenaries is if we cancel the building projects in Sparta, Athens and Rhodes. Even then, as my information is cursory, I do not know what strength we may add to our army."

Status: Pending

[Molina]

I have changed Ranger Blues first proposal into two, because it is two seperate points, and people might not(haven't) agree with both. Scutarilegion, should I add one agree to Savage's point 6, and one disagree to 4 and 5?

**************************************************************************
OLD PROPOSALS:
Populus Romanus's 12 Points of War:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I PROPOSE that Hoplitai be trained
(2)I PROPOSE that mercenary Hoplitai be hired
(3)I PROPOSE that Thermon be captured
(4)I PROPOSE that Thermon be occupied
(5)I PROPOSE that Thermon be given a type II government
(6)I PROPOSE a declaration of war on Epeiros (not immediately, but soon, before the Athenai can do it)
(7)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be captured
(8)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be expelled
(9)I PROPOSE that Ambrakaia be given a level III government
(10)I PROPOSE that we ally with the Romanoi and use them to fight a war by proxy
(11)I PPOPOSE that Sparte annex Demetrias
(12)I PROPOSE that a type I government be constructed in Demetrias

Status:
(1): 3 Agree
(2): 4 Disagree
(3) - (5): 2 Agree 1 Disagree
(6) - (9): 3 Disagree
(10) - (12): 3 Agree

Ranger Blue's Army Proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I Propose that any remaining Spartans be removed from the Alliance army to be retrained,
(2)And I Propose that more hoplitai are raised in Sparte.
(3)I Propose that using this Spartan army, we take Mytilene. Not only will this give us another city, but I believe it is likely to be lightly defender, and more importantly, when the time comes will give us a good base from which to launch attack into Asia Minor.

Status:
(1): 1 Agree
(2): 1 Disagree
(3): 1 Agree

NEW PROPOSALS:

MIDNMainolfi's Proposal of Krete Invasion:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Propose: We take the island of Krete under the Spartan banner! It is in the middle of our soon-to-be trades routes in Africa, as well as away from the soon-to-be very hectic Greek Peninsula.

Status: 1 Agree

SavageFeats Points of Diplomacy and Recruitment, Misc:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I PROPOSE that the Attike/Thermopylae fort be abandoned as we have no more use for it and it needs troops garrisoned it for stay there and as seen before they can just walk arround it.

(2) PROPOSE that Molina show us the Faction Diplomacy for factions such as Epirus, Macedon and Rome

(3)I PROPOSE that we get a diplomat over to Asia Minor and get trade rights with some Successor Kingdoms (Seleucid's, Ptolemy's , Armenia and Pontos (have we cease fired with them yet? if not cease fire and trade rights)

(4)I PROPOSE that you grow Sparta's Military and force Athens to pay the upkeep. I see too many men here in this assembly, that could be fighting.

(5) I PROPOSE that the Alliance Army be upgraded with more Spartan Military units. If Macedon is destroyed then you will be richer and could afford more fighting men and take on Epirus and if you are to be so daring the might that is Rome and Carthage and gain greatness.

(6)I must the PROPOSE that all Spartan Cav and ranged units be returned to Sparta and disbanded and replaced with more, conventual spartan units e.g. melee type units with a hoplon and shield with the signature Lambda (pronounced Lamda). also perhaps we could recuit some cheap units in major city's and send them over to Sparta and disband them there

Status:
(1): 1 Agree
(2): 1 Agree
(3): 1 Agree
(4): Pending
(5): 1 Agree
(6): 1 Agree

Scutarilegion's Two Cents:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I propose that Molina shows us the current population's of each of the koinon's cities.

(2)I propose that we recruit auxilia from the city of Korinthas, to increase our army's size,as they have lot of unused men.

Status:
(1)Pending
(2)Pending

MIDN Mainolfi's proposal of friendly domestic relations:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Proposal: We should somehow establish a direct line of communication with at least one of the Athenian council. True, in the past, we have had visitors to this council, however, it was less than friendly, as well as having an unfortunate execution in the Athenian council. If we could have regular communications between our peoples, or perhaps even just special dates assigned to meetings between the two councils, we could achieve great goals?

Status: Pending

These compilations make my life a lot easier, thanks Mainolfi .

This session will continue for a while longer (6 hours or less).

Also, I still read everything that is posted! (just so you don't think I skip everything and read only Mainolfi's compilatons!!)

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Thanks! Glad I could help! I would never recommend that everything be based solely off of the cleanup threads. There are a lot of things that I could of missed, proposals, agreements,etc. They are there simply to make it a little easier for everyone, and as long as someone thinks it is, then I'm happy! As always, if I ever forget anything, please do let me know. The smallest little things can make a big difference!

[The Kybrothilian]

I agree with savagefeats proposals 1,2,3,5 and 6. We don't need the fort. Trade rights with Ptolemy can greatly benefit our economy. We must also increase the amount of Spartan trained hoplites in our armies, switching spartan recruited light units to them.

[Cassibellane]

Demosthenes the Athenian arose and stood before the assembled men of Sparte.

"Fellow Greeks, good Spartans, what I have heard briefly here has both disheartened me and, in some ways, made me somewhat less ashamed of some of my fellow Athenian councillors. Though that, in itself, saddens me.

I am the leader of the Koinon Hellenon party in Athens, and have railed against the sort of nationalistic language in Athens that I hear today in Sparte. I believe we have made great headway in engendering a basis of greater co-operation and respect within the Athenian Council within the context of our alliance. Are there any here who would agree with our position? That our two states are bonded. Our history demands that we work together. Never again must we allow our two great states to fall into envy or suspicion of the other. We must work together, we and you, as great men of a greater Hellas. Suspicion and enmity between us will destroy us all, respect and co-operation will enrich us all, and will be a blueprint for a greater Hellenic world.

I have here a branch taken from one of my own olive plantations. I would give this to any who desire it here in Sparte. I offer this to you, good men of Sparte. I assure you that if Sparte ever needs assistance from Athens you have only to ask; what I can give I will. I commend your King, Areus, for twice relieving our city, and I have honoured your brave dead, along with our own, in my offerings to the Gods. In Athens you will find a firm and loyal ally, not a fleeting accomodation, if only you would desire it.

I honour you, good men of Sparte. Will you allow me to return to Athens and speak of your honour there? Look to the decree of our alliance; think upon the oaths we take within its statute. What I promise to my Gods I take very seriously."

Demosthenes returned to his seat, leaving the olive branch upon the floor of the council chamber.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Epicydes watches as Demostheneses gently places the olive branch upon the floor. Could the Athenian have a point? No one in the hall makes a motion, not even a sound. Once again, indecision has plagued the halls of Sparta concerning the relations of the cities. Epicydes rises and Demosthenes takes his seat, "Spartans! Though it may not be very becoming of us to admit so, but the Athenian is right! Our two cities have acted independently of one another for too long! How are we to accomplish spectacular feats of glory, when our time is dedicated to individually accomplish nothing? How long has it been since the glorious day of the forming of our alliance? How many years? How many Spartans, Athenians, Greeks have perished on the plains? What have we to show for it? What have we gained to justify such bloodshed across the peninsula? If are two cities conversed, even sporadicly, with one another, imagine what we could accomplish!"

Epicydes slowly approaches the olive branch on the floor, "My dear Athenian brother! I shall stand beside you in our greatest hour of need! Who is with me?!"

Proposal: We should somehow establish a direct line of communication with at least one of the Athenian council. True, in the past, we have had visitors to this council, however, it was less than friendly, as well as having an unfortunate execution in the Athenian council. If we could have regular communications between our peoples, or perhaps even just special dates assigned to meetings between the two councils, we could achieve great goals?


P.S. I'm not sure how easy it would be to do something like this, maybe both sides just elects a representative or something that could pass along regular transpondence between the two. However, it is just as likely that establishing this could provoke just as many problems as not communicating. Conflict arguements could lead nowhere. Perhaps we would have to incorporate a voting system such as we have here into collective decision making?

We could end up doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8szWccJvb4

Crashing and burning. Yes, it's in my sig, I like it....a lot.

[Cassibellane]

Proposal: We should somehow establish a direct line of communication with at least one of the Athenian council. True, in the past, we have had visitors to this council, however, it was less than friendly, as well as having an unfortunate execution in the Athenian council. If we could have regular communications between our peoples, or perhaps even just special dates assigned to meetings between the two councils, we could achieve great goals?


P.S. I'm not sure how easy it would be to do something like this, maybe both sides just elects a representative or something that could pass along regular transpondence between the two. However, it is just as likely that establishing this could provoke just as many problems as not communicating. Conflict arguements could lead nowhere. Perhaps we would have to incorporate a voting system such as we have here into collective decision making?

We could end up doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8szWccJvb4

Yes, it's in my sig, I like it....a lot.

Your proposition was sort of what I was getting at. What I seek is a pro-alliance party along the lines of the Koinon Hellenon in the Athenian council, establishing greater ties between our two states; a sort of pan-Hellenic party operating for greater unity within the Koinon.